Loved this episode! I am a big Casey fan (go preorder her book!!) and her “ab workouts are a scam” was actually really enlightening in the opposite direction than intended. I have had low back pain for the last year-ish and in reading her post I realized that deep core work would probably be a big help. I’ve started seeing a pelvic floor PT and it has been so wildly affirming to have core endurance exercises as my homework. My PT tells me my core went on vacation during my back-to-back pregnancies and c-sections and we’re just inviting those muscles back into the conversation. It’s hard and I still resist even doing the homework, but it has helped so much and I’m only a month into treating it.
On the forehead and botox analogy—I think it's a good comparison because our foreheads *do* serve a purpose. The way our face moves communicates so much to the people around us, and it's the kind of subtle but powerful nonverbal cue we aren't even consciously aware of. I think it was Jessica DeFino who talked about the ways cosmetic procedures can make it harder to flirt and/or connect with romantic partners—another example of the way beauty/diet culture might drive us to focus on the appearance of a particular feature while it ends up undermining the function of it.
We're all just trying to survive in this messed up world, and I don't judge or blame anyone for doing what they need to feel okay in their own skin (pun intended) or, frankly, keep their job. But I'm curious to see how the omnipresence of procedures and filters/facetune might affect our ability to "read" people more generally.
Great episode, and I highly recommend Anna's monthly fundraiser class.
That is such a great point! It does serve a purpose! I totally didn't even think about it that way. (Of course Thee Jessica DeFino has dug into this, she's the best.) Thank you so much for listening, Oona, and for your wonderful ongoing support of Pilates for Abortion Funds! Hope to see you on Tuesday :-)
Ok but hear me out, the plunger can come straight out of the toilet (after a rinsing flush) and pop back in its little cover without me touching any part of it but the handle. How do you clean your snake afterward?? Bleach in the bathtub? How do you get it out of the toilet without it dripping everywhere?
OK so clearly we needed to spend MORE TIME ON TOILETS, not less. So you can flush the snake clean just like you can flush a plunger clean -- once the toilet is flowing normally, you can pull it out a bit and flush to rinse. There IS a risk of dripping once you pull it out since it's longer and yes, a bit more cumbersome than a plunger, but it is, at this point, theoretically clean toilet water? I put some old beach towels down on the bathroom floor just in case though (and threw them right in the wash after). You could leave it to dry on a towel. Mine has a carrying case, so I then shoved it right back in and zipped it up.
The other thing I forgot to explain is that I've had 3 different plumbers tell me that pliungers often make clogs worse. If you don't have good plunging technique, you can push the clog further down the drain but NOT release it, so you'd just end up needing the snake anyway. Obviously this could be some "actually" diet mindset among plumbers idk, but as someone who has plunged far too many toilets, I can say my success rate with the snake is way higher. Your mileage may vary!!
Interesting! Thanks for explaining all that! My daughter (also 11!) also uses way too much toilet paper but we've mostly been lucky. It probably helps that my FIL replaced the very old toilets when we moved into this house four years ago. We've had to have multiple plumber visits for our main line, bathroom sink drains, and laundry drain pipe, but so far not for the toilets 🤞. Although what is up with the tweens and all that toilet paper? I have given up on it.
Right Virginia, they aren't really small things. A marker of heart health for me was carrying two bags of groceries four blocks from Whole Foods home. My cardiologists celebrated when I could do that. Previously I'd have to take an Uber. The power is in what we regard as the small things. Balancing myself walking down the escalator without holding the railing was a huge deal. Lifting myself from the floor thoughtlessly after playing with babies was miraculous. Walking upstairs to get diapers without become breathless was a relief. These are all ordinary things that my body couldn't do before increased movement. Do I target abs? No, I don't. What I do is get my whole body moving whenever my heart allows. Sometimes it doesn't. The result is noticeable in carrying out my daily life. I call it a win.
I think the bit about locating goals/motivation in capability vs numerical weight or aesthetics is so important. Exercise can feel like punishment for having a body and daring to feed it, but focusing on what I would like to be able to do as a result really reframes it well.
The problem isn’t that I’m fat, the problem is that I don’t have the stamina I want to walk around a theme park all day with my kid. That can be improved in a fairly cause/effect way by training.
The problem isn’t that I’m fat, it’s that I want to have an easier time carrying groceries into the house. That can be improved by training.
As I train to increase my capabilities, my body will adjust to accommodate the new demands I’m making of it, because that’s what bodies do: my muscles will get bigger/stronger and my cardiovascular system will become more efficient. And yes, my body composition may change as part of it too, but that’s incidental to the fact that I walk better, lift more, no longer wake up with back pain, etc.
My abs, in fact, are very strong these days. You just can’t see them. :)
As a note on heavy barbell workouts: probably the least accessible thing about them is access to the actual equipment; this is a problem for sure but maybe less of one than one might think. I worked out in our community rec center for free before joining a gym. As strength training overtakes cardio as “the exercise everyone should do,” I would expect to see a barbell and plates showing up in more apartment building fitness rooms, community centers, etc. alongside sets being available secondhand on FB marketplace all the time…
This made me think of my ex-boyfriend who at 21 years old when I was 22 said something idiotic to me about how even though I was thin I still didn’t have a flat stomach. I don’t remember my exact response but it was something like, “Do you have a point?” And he said, “No, I’m just surprised because you always hear about thin people having a flat stomach, and yours still isn’t really.” I think I replied, “Yeah, most people have to eat a very specific diet and exercise excessively to achieve that look, and I have never wanted to do that, so here we are.” This was the summer after I had had a recurrence of anorexia during my senior year of college, so I was pretty annoyed by his “observation,” but I think he was insecure because he told me he felt like he had a chubby stomach (he really didn’t, he just wasn’t someone who really worked out much). This was in 2010 so I am sure that there were a lot of celebrities with very visible abs at the time- I certainly had Usher on my wall during college. But I never thought it was a reasonable goal for anyone, and even when I did a lot of core exercises and had an extremely strong core from taking Pilates, my stomach never had visible abs.
These days I use my core constantly because I have to use those muscles to lift the babies in my class, but I don’t do exercises dedicated to strengthening my core specifically- I just let my job naturally strengthen those muscles. My workout such as it is since September has consisted of dancing to my Taylor Swift playlist for 20-45 minutes and doing like 40-50 daily pushups and some squats. I love getting to hear Taylor Swift every day and start my day off in a fun way.
My recent chronic pain/chronic illness workshop covered a lot of what Anna said about movement (any kind), the nervous system and central sensitization. To re-train our pain receptors, it’s important to push that pain threshold, not so much that there’s a flareup, but maybe more than last time or last week so our body knows that it’s safe. And it won’t be a linear increase either, more dips and rises, but there will eventually be an improvement. A PT is so helpful for figuring this out if you’re able to work with one.
As for abs, I’m the proud(?) owner of a round, pudgy belly yet a functional core. Even at the height of my healthism and exercising, I never had visible abs. I don’t think it’s genetically possible. At this point I’ve made my peace with it. I’d much rather less/no pain over “show” abs.
(TW for toilet talk)
Virginia, have you considered a washlet/bidet option as an alternative to all the toilet paper?
The only time I ever needed to unclog a toilet was when I had guests staying over. They used A LOT of toilet paper. In the 10 years I lived there, no one ever plugged the toilet until then! I didn’t even have a plunger so had to go out and buy one! 🙈
That’s such a great point about the ebbs and flows of the journey to reduce sensitization! I’m really glad you brought it up. (And that you enjoyed the convo!)
OK so my kids used a bidet when we stayed with family in Thailand a few years ago and loved it! That might for sure be the solution if I can find one that easily adds to an existing toilet!
A big +1 to adding the bidet to the toilet. We got a Toto Washlet, which is one of the fancier ones, but there are plenty of options that essentially replace your toilet seat. So great.
They had a Toto washlet when we were in Hawaii and it was SO nice to have a bidet on vacation. We have them on our toilets at home and my kids always complain when we don’t have them while traveling.
We got a handheld one! The install is supposed to be easy, but re: your home conversation, I have been waiting for my (male) partner to do it for me for like two months…
There are lots of options out there (Home Depot, Costco, Target, etc) and I’ve heard it’s similar to changing a toilet seat. Depending on the type, you might also need a nearby electrical outlet.
I love this episode for many reasons, but mostly because it’s so good to hear more and more conversations about the nuances in… everything. There is not one way, one best, one DO NOT EVER when it comes to anything. We all know this, deep down, I think, but it is really hard when you’re feeling vulnerable!!
What a helpful listen and perfectly timed for me! Just finished my last PT session yesterday after struggling with hip & low back pain for a few months. I too share a distaste for core workouts because of lingering diet culture stuff. This encouraged me to keep going with the core exercises recommended by my PT that make my back feel better. Thank you!!
Side note: the cue the (male, very slender) PT gave me to make sure I was engaging my core muscles properly was “get skinny.” I didn’t have it in me to push back in the middle of, ya know, trying to engage those core muscles. But if anyone else has another cue for pulling in and engaging, I’m all ears. I find a verbal cue like that to be really helpful.
Oh my god, I despise that cue so much! I’m a little bit shocked. A couple of things that I use:
- pull your abdominals in and up like you’re zipping up a pair of high waisted pants
- visualize where your front hip bones are, and imagine them pulling toward each other
Always with the goal of keeping your spine long as you engage. Sometimes “belly button to spine” can make people unintentionally round forward, so focusing on engagement with a long/neutral spine is the key.
I know, every time he did it I just about did a double take. I think he’s a wonderful therapist otherwise - was disappointed. These are helpful cues, thank you!
I believe it! My core muscles were strongest in high school and college, not because I was working out but because I played a woodwind instrument seriously and engaged my core muscles constantly to do so.
I loved this interview! I've just started doing weight training with a physical trainer and still don't feel very confident, but am excited to be trying something new and good for my body. I'm glad you said cardio is valuable because I really love running and yoga (well, not always running, but I love having GONE running)!
Ha totally, that’s exactly what I mean when I say the workout itself may not feel joyful but noticing the way you feel later (hopefully good!) can be a good thing :-) So glad you’re working with a trainer and feeling good about it!
I'm also glad you talked about discomfort levels. In yoga they say to back off from pain, which I do, but I'm never sure how much discomfort (ie, exertion I should put into the pose) I should try, which I see as different.
Re: closing the toilet seats, we bought self closing toilets sears at Home Depot years ago, and I highly recommend them. You just give a slight push on the lid, and they close themselves, quietly.
Re: plungers, there are actually two types of plungers. The 'cup' plunger, which is what most of us think of as the typical plunger, is NOT best used on a toilet. You want a 'flange' plunger because it fits down the toilet drain better. We also have both a toilet snake AND a shower snake. I will admit that my husband is in charge of both.
I wish that this mentality existed (or I knew about it) when I was in my heavy exercising/short lived personal training career. Also: Long live grumpy little walks.
I love making snowflakes with my kids (other than the scraps of paper). We also had those bats up and one didn’t make it back into the Halloween decorations last year, so for the last year it’s been getting decorated for each new holiday or event, such as a Santa hat during Christmas or birthday cake and balloons during birthdays. It’s silly but fun.
How disappointing to see myself misrepresented here as “being only in favor of heavy barbell workouts” that are only accessible to a tiny minority of people! Here’s a workout straight from my only program with no “heavy barbells” at all. I appreciate the compliments but it feels unnecessary to construe what I do or say in order to protect the notoriously vague concept of “the core workout.”
Couch to Barbell got me lifting. I’m so much stronger. I go through my day knowing I’m capable of bending, twisting, lifting heavy things. Your program is an easy-access, buildable system and I think anyone interested in beginning a strength training program should check it out.
Hey Casey! I don’t think I said that at all — I did say you were a “big fan” of barbell workouts, though (if that is misrepresenting you please tell me!). I hope you don’t see this as a takedown — it’s not meant that way at all, just adding some additional context that might be helpful for folks. I love your work and I hope that mentioning it here sends more people your way.
Loved this episode! I am a big Casey fan (go preorder her book!!) and her “ab workouts are a scam” was actually really enlightening in the opposite direction than intended. I have had low back pain for the last year-ish and in reading her post I realized that deep core work would probably be a big help. I’ve started seeing a pelvic floor PT and it has been so wildly affirming to have core endurance exercises as my homework. My PT tells me my core went on vacation during my back-to-back pregnancies and c-sections and we’re just inviting those muscles back into the conversation. It’s hard and I still resist even doing the homework, but it has helped so much and I’m only a month into treating it.
Love that it led you to finding the support you need!!
Pelvic floor PT is a revelation! It’s awesome that it’s helping you!
It really is!!!
On the forehead and botox analogy—I think it's a good comparison because our foreheads *do* serve a purpose. The way our face moves communicates so much to the people around us, and it's the kind of subtle but powerful nonverbal cue we aren't even consciously aware of. I think it was Jessica DeFino who talked about the ways cosmetic procedures can make it harder to flirt and/or connect with romantic partners—another example of the way beauty/diet culture might drive us to focus on the appearance of a particular feature while it ends up undermining the function of it.
We're all just trying to survive in this messed up world, and I don't judge or blame anyone for doing what they need to feel okay in their own skin (pun intended) or, frankly, keep their job. But I'm curious to see how the omnipresence of procedures and filters/facetune might affect our ability to "read" people more generally.
Great episode, and I highly recommend Anna's monthly fundraiser class.
That is such a great point! It does serve a purpose! I totally didn't even think about it that way. (Of course Thee Jessica DeFino has dug into this, she's the best.) Thank you so much for listening, Oona, and for your wonderful ongoing support of Pilates for Abortion Funds! Hope to see you on Tuesday :-)
Ok but hear me out, the plunger can come straight out of the toilet (after a rinsing flush) and pop back in its little cover without me touching any part of it but the handle. How do you clean your snake afterward?? Bleach in the bathtub? How do you get it out of the toilet without it dripping everywhere?
I have the same Qs but was scared to ask lollll
I came here to ask this question too! How are you cleaning the snake afterwards? Don't you have to dry it off before you store it?
OK so clearly we needed to spend MORE TIME ON TOILETS, not less. So you can flush the snake clean just like you can flush a plunger clean -- once the toilet is flowing normally, you can pull it out a bit and flush to rinse. There IS a risk of dripping once you pull it out since it's longer and yes, a bit more cumbersome than a plunger, but it is, at this point, theoretically clean toilet water? I put some old beach towels down on the bathroom floor just in case though (and threw them right in the wash after). You could leave it to dry on a towel. Mine has a carrying case, so I then shoved it right back in and zipped it up.
The other thing I forgot to explain is that I've had 3 different plumbers tell me that pliungers often make clogs worse. If you don't have good plunging technique, you can push the clog further down the drain but NOT release it, so you'd just end up needing the snake anyway. Obviously this could be some "actually" diet mindset among plumbers idk, but as someone who has plunged far too many toilets, I can say my success rate with the snake is way higher. Your mileage may vary!!
Interesting! Thanks for explaining all that! My daughter (also 11!) also uses way too much toilet paper but we've mostly been lucky. It probably helps that my FIL replaced the very old toilets when we moved into this house four years ago. We've had to have multiple plumber visits for our main line, bathroom sink drains, and laundry drain pipe, but so far not for the toilets 🤞. Although what is up with the tweens and all that toilet paper? I have given up on it.
Sorry Virginia but the snake sounds so much grosser to me for these reasons!!! (I am also v used to plunging toilets tho)
Right Virginia, they aren't really small things. A marker of heart health for me was carrying two bags of groceries four blocks from Whole Foods home. My cardiologists celebrated when I could do that. Previously I'd have to take an Uber. The power is in what we regard as the small things. Balancing myself walking down the escalator without holding the railing was a huge deal. Lifting myself from the floor thoughtlessly after playing with babies was miraculous. Walking upstairs to get diapers without become breathless was a relief. These are all ordinary things that my body couldn't do before increased movement. Do I target abs? No, I don't. What I do is get my whole body moving whenever my heart allows. Sometimes it doesn't. The result is noticeable in carrying out my daily life. I call it a win.
I think the bit about locating goals/motivation in capability vs numerical weight or aesthetics is so important. Exercise can feel like punishment for having a body and daring to feed it, but focusing on what I would like to be able to do as a result really reframes it well.
The problem isn’t that I’m fat, the problem is that I don’t have the stamina I want to walk around a theme park all day with my kid. That can be improved in a fairly cause/effect way by training.
The problem isn’t that I’m fat, it’s that I want to have an easier time carrying groceries into the house. That can be improved by training.
As I train to increase my capabilities, my body will adjust to accommodate the new demands I’m making of it, because that’s what bodies do: my muscles will get bigger/stronger and my cardiovascular system will become more efficient. And yes, my body composition may change as part of it too, but that’s incidental to the fact that I walk better, lift more, no longer wake up with back pain, etc.
My abs, in fact, are very strong these days. You just can’t see them. :)
As a note on heavy barbell workouts: probably the least accessible thing about them is access to the actual equipment; this is a problem for sure but maybe less of one than one might think. I worked out in our community rec center for free before joining a gym. As strength training overtakes cardio as “the exercise everyone should do,” I would expect to see a barbell and plates showing up in more apartment building fitness rooms, community centers, etc. alongside sets being available secondhand on FB marketplace all the time…
Oh my goodness your comment gave me goosebumps. I love the way you put this! YES!
And yessss I also love this idea that barbells could become more widely available with the rise in popularity of strength training. Please!!!
This made me think of my ex-boyfriend who at 21 years old when I was 22 said something idiotic to me about how even though I was thin I still didn’t have a flat stomach. I don’t remember my exact response but it was something like, “Do you have a point?” And he said, “No, I’m just surprised because you always hear about thin people having a flat stomach, and yours still isn’t really.” I think I replied, “Yeah, most people have to eat a very specific diet and exercise excessively to achieve that look, and I have never wanted to do that, so here we are.” This was the summer after I had had a recurrence of anorexia during my senior year of college, so I was pretty annoyed by his “observation,” but I think he was insecure because he told me he felt like he had a chubby stomach (he really didn’t, he just wasn’t someone who really worked out much). This was in 2010 so I am sure that there were a lot of celebrities with very visible abs at the time- I certainly had Usher on my wall during college. But I never thought it was a reasonable goal for anyone, and even when I did a lot of core exercises and had an extremely strong core from taking Pilates, my stomach never had visible abs.
These days I use my core constantly because I have to use those muscles to lift the babies in my class, but I don’t do exercises dedicated to strengthening my core specifically- I just let my job naturally strengthen those muscles. My workout such as it is since September has consisted of dancing to my Taylor Swift playlist for 20-45 minutes and doing like 40-50 daily pushups and some squats. I love getting to hear Taylor Swift every day and start my day off in a fun way.
LOVED this conversation!
My recent chronic pain/chronic illness workshop covered a lot of what Anna said about movement (any kind), the nervous system and central sensitization. To re-train our pain receptors, it’s important to push that pain threshold, not so much that there’s a flareup, but maybe more than last time or last week so our body knows that it’s safe. And it won’t be a linear increase either, more dips and rises, but there will eventually be an improvement. A PT is so helpful for figuring this out if you’re able to work with one.
As for abs, I’m the proud(?) owner of a round, pudgy belly yet a functional core. Even at the height of my healthism and exercising, I never had visible abs. I don’t think it’s genetically possible. At this point I’ve made my peace with it. I’d much rather less/no pain over “show” abs.
(TW for toilet talk)
Virginia, have you considered a washlet/bidet option as an alternative to all the toilet paper?
The only time I ever needed to unclog a toilet was when I had guests staying over. They used A LOT of toilet paper. In the 10 years I lived there, no one ever plugged the toilet until then! I didn’t even have a plunger so had to go out and buy one! 🙈
That’s such a great point about the ebbs and flows of the journey to reduce sensitization! I’m really glad you brought it up. (And that you enjoyed the convo!)
OK so my kids used a bidet when we stayed with family in Thailand a few years ago and loved it! That might for sure be the solution if I can find one that easily adds to an existing toilet!
There are also some that sorta slide under your existing toilet seat.
A big +1 to adding the bidet to the toilet. We got a Toto Washlet, which is one of the fancier ones, but there are plenty of options that essentially replace your toilet seat. So great.
They had a Toto washlet when we were in Hawaii and it was SO nice to have a bidet on vacation. We have them on our toilets at home and my kids always complain when we don’t have them while traveling.
We got a handheld one! The install is supposed to be easy, but re: your home conversation, I have been waiting for my (male) partner to do it for me for like two months…
There are lots of options out there (Home Depot, Costco, Target, etc) and I’ve heard it’s similar to changing a toilet seat. Depending on the type, you might also need a nearby electrical outlet.
Yes! We have bidets on two of our toilets and they’re basically upgraded toilet seats. Truly does reduce toilet paper use!
I love this episode for many reasons, but mostly because it’s so good to hear more and more conversations about the nuances in… everything. There is not one way, one best, one DO NOT EVER when it comes to anything. We all know this, deep down, I think, but it is really hard when you’re feeling vulnerable!!
What a helpful listen and perfectly timed for me! Just finished my last PT session yesterday after struggling with hip & low back pain for a few months. I too share a distaste for core workouts because of lingering diet culture stuff. This encouraged me to keep going with the core exercises recommended by my PT that make my back feel better. Thank you!!
Side note: the cue the (male, very slender) PT gave me to make sure I was engaging my core muscles properly was “get skinny.” I didn’t have it in me to push back in the middle of, ya know, trying to engage those core muscles. But if anyone else has another cue for pulling in and engaging, I’m all ears. I find a verbal cue like that to be really helpful.
Oh my god, I despise that cue so much! I’m a little bit shocked. A couple of things that I use:
- pull your abdominals in and up like you’re zipping up a pair of high waisted pants
- visualize where your front hip bones are, and imagine them pulling toward each other
Always with the goal of keeping your spine long as you engage. Sometimes “belly button to spine” can make people unintentionally round forward, so focusing on engagement with a long/neutral spine is the key.
I know, every time he did it I just about did a double take. I think he’s a wonderful therapist otherwise - was disappointed. These are helpful cues, thank you!
Oh good, I’m glad. And I think that PT should take a listen to Burnt Toast :-)
Ew! I find “get skinny” to NOT engage my core. What helps me is “pull your belly button back and up.”
I love this so much. I’m an opera singer, mid-sized but I am thickest in the middle. No visible abs of any kind—core strength for DAYS.
I believe it! My core muscles were strongest in high school and college, not because I was working out but because I played a woodwind instrument seriously and engaged my core muscles constantly to do so.
This is so cool; love these examples! Core strength and breath are so deeply connected.
I loved this interview! I've just started doing weight training with a physical trainer and still don't feel very confident, but am excited to be trying something new and good for my body. I'm glad you said cardio is valuable because I really love running and yoga (well, not always running, but I love having GONE running)!
Ha totally, that’s exactly what I mean when I say the workout itself may not feel joyful but noticing the way you feel later (hopefully good!) can be a good thing :-) So glad you’re working with a trainer and feeling good about it!
I'm also glad you talked about discomfort levels. In yoga they say to back off from pain, which I do, but I'm never sure how much discomfort (ie, exertion I should put into the pose) I should try, which I see as different.
Re: closing the toilet seats, we bought self closing toilets sears at Home Depot years ago, and I highly recommend them. You just give a slight push on the lid, and they close themselves, quietly.
Re: plungers, there are actually two types of plungers. The 'cup' plunger, which is what most of us think of as the typical plunger, is NOT best used on a toilet. You want a 'flange' plunger because it fits down the toilet drain better. We also have both a toilet snake AND a shower snake. I will admit that my husband is in charge of both.
I wish that this mentality existed (or I knew about it) when I was in my heavy exercising/short lived personal training career. Also: Long live grumpy little walks.
I love making snowflakes with my kids (other than the scraps of paper). We also had those bats up and one didn’t make it back into the Halloween decorations last year, so for the last year it’s been getting decorated for each new holiday or event, such as a Santa hat during Christmas or birthday cake and balloons during birthdays. It’s silly but fun.
I love a grumpy little walk too. I really need to get back into it, especially now that wintry weather has set in. It makes such a difference!
I love your festive bat, that's the cutest thing ever :-)
How disappointing to see myself misrepresented here as “being only in favor of heavy barbell workouts” that are only accessible to a tiny minority of people! Here’s a workout straight from my only program with no “heavy barbells” at all. I appreciate the compliments but it feels unnecessary to construe what I do or say in order to protect the notoriously vague concept of “the core workout.”
https://vimeo.com/919713907/268edb3be2
Couch to Barbell got me lifting. I’m so much stronger. I go through my day knowing I’m capable of bending, twisting, lifting heavy things. Your program is an easy-access, buildable system and I think anyone interested in beginning a strength training program should check it out.
That’s soooo amazing Annette. Casey’s work is incredible.
Hey Casey! I don’t think I said that at all — I did say you were a “big fan” of barbell workouts, though (if that is misrepresenting you please tell me!). I hope you don’t see this as a takedown — it’s not meant that way at all, just adding some additional context that might be helpful for folks. I love your work and I hope that mentioning it here sends more people your way.
I found the perfect Butter except that its price is *absolutely wackadoo*: https://mokuyobi.com/products/butter-bag