May 12, 2022·edited May 12, 2022Liked by Virginia Sole-Smith
Thank you for this interview! I am excited to read the book!
I often think about how much of my ability to have kids in a two-career family is contingent on the fact that my parents and in-laws both had family structures where the dad was the primary earner and the mom worked intermittently in education, which meant that when we had kids, the grandmas were able to either retire/quit in their 50s, or take leave or summer vacation to support us.
And what a Ponzi scheme it is - am I supposed to leave my career when I'm 56 if my daughter has a baby when she's 28 like I did? If I don't, will she not have the opportunities I've had? If I do, what was the point of my mom's work in raising me and my mom and MIL's work in supporting me to be a person who could have this career?
I'm not sure that fixes it (though those would be great and necessary things), but maybe I'm not seeing all the angles.
I think I still wouldn't want to go into care work if it were more valued. It's not what I know how to do and it's not what I'm good at. Like you all said above, early childhood education is not my calling!
I don't know that it's any better if my husband is the one who takes the career hit when he's 56. It's still the Ponzi scheme of our parents pouring resources into us, so that we could be "successful," but then us having to abandon ship mid-career, so that our kids can be "successful."
No matter how valued care work is, or who does it, isn't the problem still there if it's nearly compulsory to have a willing grandparent if you're going to have a two-career family with kids (and not go insane or bankrupt)?
And none of that addresses the way that some of us have this privilege and others don't. I already won the lottery of having living, loving, helpful parents - now I get to win the grandparent/kid lottery too?
I think whatever the solution is, it has to come from outside the family.
I agree -- the default assumption that somebody takes the career hit at 56 is a problem. The solution is universal childcare, provided by highly paid and valued workers. And figuring out what the hell we do in the meantime is...exhausting.
This reminds me of some of Elizabeth Warren’s work (pre-politics) about the invisible precarity of two income homes. What I remember of the argument was that if you need two full-time incomes to make ends meet, there’s much less wiggle room if one person loses a job or starts earning less because there’s no one to enter the workforce who wasn’t already earning. But of course that situation also likely relies on people who aren’t in the workforce (like grandparents) or are underpaid and undervalued workers. So yes definitely a Ponzi scheme.
"I think a lot of white women now are reckoning with this. A lot of Boomer women were like, “I can have it all.” And that’s the huge lie that we’re still grappling with. Like, you cannot have it all."
Loved this, because I thought I was the only one who felt this way. I've worked from home, with a flexible but full time workload while homeschooling my children for over a decade and it's lonely.
Queer romance author recommendations, in no particular order:
I just bought the book. I can't wait to read this. One part of this interview that resonated with me SO MUCH was the comment that white feminists were sold a bill of goods. It was a perfect articulation of how I have felt my entire life (53).
This sentence in Virginia's question: "But I think that when you are like a 98% on a scale that is completely unrealistic, the extreme tactics to get there feel reasonable because you could get there."
I suddenly remembered a (thin) housemate I had in my 20s, who I haven't even thought of in I don't know how many years, looking at a picture of a celebrity on the beach and lamenting that they had cellulite, and I was like "Isn't that kind of freeing, to know that even someone like that doesn't live up to the standard in real life?" and my housemate said "No, it just tells me there's no hope."
Re romance novels, D'Vaughn and Kris Plan a Wedding, by Chencia C. Higgins. Alyssa Cole has some LGBTQ romances. So does Adriana Herrera.
ooo, book recommendations are my FAVORITE THING. Though it is hard to find books that are both queer and non-white.
I really liked Ashley Blake Herring's new Delilah Green Doesn't Care
Katee Robert's books all have queer characters (or at least all the ones I've read), even when the pairing is hetero. They're also VERY sexy. Her new series is FANTASTIC, the first book is Neon Gods.
Written in the Stars by Alexandria Bellefleur
Honey Girl by Morgan Rogers is about a Black queer woman!
And so is Xeni by Rebekah Weatherspoon!
Something to Talk About by Meryl Wisner, iirc one of the leads is Asian American
LOVED this conversation. So many excellent gems. And this line: "What is better than friendship? There’s nothing better. Sex is great, but have you had a friend?" So true. Following along for queer romance book recs. Love so many of the authors already mentioned.
Casey McQuiston's One Last Stop is lovely (Red, White & Royal Blue was also fabulous)
Thank you for this interview! I am excited to read the book!
I often think about how much of my ability to have kids in a two-career family is contingent on the fact that my parents and in-laws both had family structures where the dad was the primary earner and the mom worked intermittently in education, which meant that when we had kids, the grandmas were able to either retire/quit in their 50s, or take leave or summer vacation to support us.
And what a Ponzi scheme it is - am I supposed to leave my career when I'm 56 if my daughter has a baby when she's 28 like I did? If I don't, will she not have the opportunities I've had? If I do, what was the point of my mom's work in raising me and my mom and MIL's work in supporting me to be a person who could have this career?
I think about this question A LOT. And yes, it is a Ponzi scheme for women.
But maybe also, it wouldn't feel that way if we didn't default to this being women's work, and if care work was valued more, as Angela says?
I'm not sure that fixes it (though those would be great and necessary things), but maybe I'm not seeing all the angles.
I think I still wouldn't want to go into care work if it were more valued. It's not what I know how to do and it's not what I'm good at. Like you all said above, early childhood education is not my calling!
I don't know that it's any better if my husband is the one who takes the career hit when he's 56. It's still the Ponzi scheme of our parents pouring resources into us, so that we could be "successful," but then us having to abandon ship mid-career, so that our kids can be "successful."
No matter how valued care work is, or who does it, isn't the problem still there if it's nearly compulsory to have a willing grandparent if you're going to have a two-career family with kids (and not go insane or bankrupt)?
And none of that addresses the way that some of us have this privilege and others don't. I already won the lottery of having living, loving, helpful parents - now I get to win the grandparent/kid lottery too?
I think whatever the solution is, it has to come from outside the family.
I agree -- the default assumption that somebody takes the career hit at 56 is a problem. The solution is universal childcare, provided by highly paid and valued workers. And figuring out what the hell we do in the meantime is...exhausting.
This reminds me of some of Elizabeth Warren’s work (pre-politics) about the invisible precarity of two income homes. What I remember of the argument was that if you need two full-time incomes to make ends meet, there’s much less wiggle room if one person loses a job or starts earning less because there’s no one to enter the workforce who wasn’t already earning. But of course that situation also likely relies on people who aren’t in the workforce (like grandparents) or are underpaid and undervalued workers. So yes definitely a Ponzi scheme.
Yes about the Ponzi scheme of family care.
"I think a lot of white women now are reckoning with this. A lot of Boomer women were like, “I can have it all.” And that’s the huge lie that we’re still grappling with. Like, you cannot have it all."
Loved this, because I thought I was the only one who felt this way. I've worked from home, with a flexible but full time workload while homeschooling my children for over a decade and it's lonely.
Queer romance author recommendations, in no particular order:
Cat Sebastian
Olivia Waite
Courtney Milan
Freya Marske
K.L. Noone
Parker Foye
Roan Parrish
K.J. Charles
Alexis Hall
Talia Hibbert
Gail Carriger
Nathan Burgoine
Love these! Thank you!
I just bought the book. I can't wait to read this. One part of this interview that resonated with me SO MUCH was the comment that white feminists were sold a bill of goods. It was a perfect articulation of how I have felt my entire life (53).
That's one of the lines I keep thinking about.
This sentence in Virginia's question: "But I think that when you are like a 98% on a scale that is completely unrealistic, the extreme tactics to get there feel reasonable because you could get there."
I suddenly remembered a (thin) housemate I had in my 20s, who I haven't even thought of in I don't know how many years, looking at a picture of a celebrity on the beach and lamenting that they had cellulite, and I was like "Isn't that kind of freeing, to know that even someone like that doesn't live up to the standard in real life?" and my housemate said "No, it just tells me there's no hope."
Re romance novels, D'Vaughn and Kris Plan a Wedding, by Chencia C. Higgins. Alyssa Cole has some LGBTQ romances. So does Adriana Herrera.
YES. And it's like, what does it take to realize that there is so much liberation in "there's no hope." (Love these recs, thank you!)
ooo, book recommendations are my FAVORITE THING. Though it is hard to find books that are both queer and non-white.
I really liked Ashley Blake Herring's new Delilah Green Doesn't Care
Katee Robert's books all have queer characters (or at least all the ones I've read), even when the pairing is hetero. They're also VERY sexy. Her new series is FANTASTIC, the first book is Neon Gods.
Written in the Stars by Alexandria Bellefleur
Honey Girl by Morgan Rogers is about a Black queer woman!
And so is Xeni by Rebekah Weatherspoon!
Something to Talk About by Meryl Wisner, iirc one of the leads is Asian American
LOVED this conversation. So many excellent gems. And this line: "What is better than friendship? There’s nothing better. Sex is great, but have you had a friend?" So true. Following along for queer romance book recs. Love so many of the authors already mentioned.
Casey McQuiston's One Last Stop is lovely (Red, White & Royal Blue was also fabulous)
Great episode! Angela Garbes is such an acute and empathetic thinker. I hope the book is a huge hit!