I love love LOVE books, but I recently realized how much money I was spending on books on Kindle that...were just sitting there for someday. And they weren't even like, sitting in piles making me feel like I was living in a magical used bookstore, they were on my Kindle just getting lost!
So I finally got a local library card and downloaded Libby and it's AWESOME. I put in a lot of holds. Sometimes I get them and read them, and sometimes it's not time, and I reschedule them, and it's fine! I get excited by the things i have on hold, and when they're available it's a happy free present to myself! AND it comes with the satisfaction of knowing I'm supporting my local library (they benefit from people with library cards, so get one even if you won't use it!). It scratches the shopping itch really really well. I can go after something on my want to read list, or browse and find something neat.
It's especially good because if I start something and don't like it, I can just return it and not feel guilty I wasted $12 on a steampunk novel that turned out to be full of literary devices that irritate me (ahem, for example, ahem, looking at the novel I started last night I definitely wasted money on). It's teaching me to DNF and that's something I should definitely do more of.
I love my local library. When I get the itch to buy books, I go on the website and request all the books I want and pretend I"m online shopping. When they arrive, I pick them up, stack them on my shelf for three weeks and enjoy them. Then I return them for a new batch!
Libraries are the perfect book storage device for me. There are so many things that I want to look at for a little bit but don’t need to own.
Also, when you go to a library, at least in a small town, you often get to talk to lots of other people about the books they’re reading.
And yes, I online shop our libraries hold system at least every couple weeks.
I subscribe to a bunch of kid book lists. And since I homeschool, I am putting Library books on hold instead instead of buying random curriculum items that won’t be used.
Also, Libby is great, and I have a dear friend who continues to maintain all her library cards from living in various districts, so that she has access to multiple library systems for a greater chance of them, owning the book that she wants to read.
If you are on a long-ish vacation somewhere in the US I would suggest checking out the library in that area and seeing if you can get a card.
So true! I don't know why it took me so long to get a library card when I used to love love love the library as a kid. I have a Kindle and it's magical to have my holds move up the list or get notified they bought a book I suggested. I figure doing that exposes more people to the author and helps them as much as me buying one copy ever did.
I love Libby too! I tell everyone about it. I read a lot but I hardly ever buy books because I get them from Libby. Ever since I moved a lot in my twenties, I don't have the appeal to own many physical books. Now we're not likely to move anytime soon, but I'd rather use the limited space in our house to store things other than books. I like to read physical picture books to my kids, but I get those from the library too.
This was a great conversation. Re the hair brushes: My previous therapist referred to this type of thing as “setting fires so you can put them out” and, wow, did I feel very attacked! She described that pattern as a way of “binding” anxiety—basically encapsulating the anxiety in something else that can be neatly dealt with. I have found it an incredibly useful tool, not so much to change behavior but to name for myself what’s going on. For instance, am I currently making lists and doing a lot of thinking about the menu ifor my daughter’s graduation party that is *three* entire months away? Yes. And is that a way of dealing with the many many feelings I have about that milestone? TOTALLY.
Oh GOD yes that is absolutely what I'm doing with the hairbrushes. And hey, sometimes anxiety needs to be bound, I guess? But good to be aware of the pattern...
I felt a pull to defend your practice with the brushes. We need to stay sane and if moments of peace are achieved, I think a purchase can be successful
Me too! I wasn’t comfortable with that part of the conversation. The kid doesn’t want their hair brushed, but the consequences (judgment about the home environment) end up with the parent.
It’s a legitimate anxiety and we aren’t buying extra hairbrushes so the colours match, it’s a way of saving a lot of time, labour and protection from (what would be misplaced) external harassment.
Ah, I appreciate that. Corinne also felt protective of our hair strategy! 😂
My feeling is, it’s helpful for me to notice and examine my shopping-for-solution tendency, and consider whether that’s always the needed solution. The hairbrush example could have been solved another way, but it doesn’t mean the way I solved it is wrong — it’s perfectly fine to conclude that yes, the stakes of hair judgment are high enough to need this to go more smoothly. And someone else might decide it wasn’t worth buying a thing. I think it’s not really about whether you buy the hairbrush or not (the “correctness” of that decision is so personal!) and more about adding that layer of reflection to the process.
Hmmm maybe, but I think the guest’s question “what was their consequence” pretty starkly contrasted with her wise thoughts on self-compassion, and allowing people to know for themselves what they need. What does consequences have to do with any of that? Let alone consequences for children? I hope she reflects on that a little bit. Also to me that is a diet mentality-I have one, and that’s all I’m allowed even if it isn’t meeting my needs. I don’t think it’s well thought-through on her part. And that’s fine. She sounds like an awesome dietitian. But her advice on this isn’t landing for me.
I am SO glad you're having this conversation because it's been on my mind a lot in the past year. Previously, to try to be mindful about my purchases, I would put things on a wish list and try to spread them out over the coming months. If, by the time the assigned month came around and I still wanted the thing, then I would get it. And generally this worked for me. Then starting last spring, I was grappling with reinventing my style. This involves a much longer story including weight gain + embracing my shape and how I can rethink playing with my silhouette with fashion + the realization that a lot of my style and clothes I wore were inherited versions of myself and I really wanted to lean further into an identity that was a little bit punk but also breaks down notions of class and gender and also considers the environmental impact of my choices, while embracing that I'm a mom in my 40s, not a teen. (It's a whole thing.) So that required some more purchases than usual, but I was trying to still be mindful and buy secondhand where possible. But then last fall, I hit some stress points and in coping with the stress *and* post-stress relief, I went into kind of a shopping frenzy. I still bought things carefully in the sense that I had really honed my style so there was no purchase I regretted, and I'm not breaking the bank or anything. But I really did not love that I had this real *compulsion* to buy. It definitely had the same feelings like bingeing. So then I tried to go on a shopping "diet" and not buy anything non-essential for two months. That made me want to buy even more and I could totally see how that was like how dieting restrictions make you want to binge. Sometimes shopping and eating fulfill some kind of need that need some awareness about them, but trying to diet isn't the way either.
I've since kind of leveled back out, and I've been using my journal to try to work out what's going on inside. But long story short, I can definitely see parallels between shopping and dieting restrictions, and also how what we consume in food or in other stuff is also really wrapped up in identity and what we want our choices to say about who we are, so it's actually really hard to make these things value or morally neutral.
One last note: I'm currently living in Germany, and here they make you empty & rinse out all the food packaging to separate out food waste versus plastic versus glass, paper, etc. Plus kitchen and fridges are tiny, so you really have to keep on top of getting rid of stuff. It really makes you confront just how much you're throwing away and this makes me feel so guilty every time and/but also mad at how difficult it can be to buy food in portion sizes that actually make sense for our family's needs. And that's another form of placing the guilt burden on the individual when those are systemic choices. [ETA: and how many of those systemic choices deliberately seek to particularly benefit the nuclear family of 2 adults with 2.5 kids]
I just moved to Ireland from Munich and there is no benefit of the doubt or compassion offered with regard to garbage and recycling errors from the Germans (in my experience). Our waste management folks refused to take our food waste for a month because I wasn’t sorting everything correctly! The aggressive lecture I received about what I was doing wrong made me cry. I do not miss that!
Oh no, that's awful. I'm sorry you had to experience that kind of lecturing. I feel your pain though! I literally have a chart from the recycling/trash company printed out that I keep by our kitchen trash for reference. I did have a total moral quandary yesterday when I had a glass bottle still half full of lemonade that I didn't want to finish and also didn't want to continue carrying around while I ran errands. Do I put it beside the trash, where a homeless person can make use of it to get the Pfand? But then that's littering...Do I put it IN the city trash so I'm not littering? But then it's not the proper receptacle for glass. Do I go to a special glass trash receptacle? But it's still half full of liquid. It was total choice paralysis. :/
Did the salad dressing part of the interview make you think of Germany?? I was thinking “having too many choices of premade dressings is not an issue in Munich!” 😂 Best they can do is give you a packet of seasonings. (I actually kind of loved the all things DIY aspect of German culture)
LOL I almost mentioned the salad dressing part in my first comment but refrained since it was already so long! Too many choices of *anything* pre-made is not an issue here. We don't even have a microwave because a) our kitchen is tiny and I want to maximize the space we do have, and b) almost everything I make has to be from scratch. What I wouldn't give to be able to make life just a little easier sometimes by being able to pick up a cooked rotisserie chicken at the supermarket. Or Amy's burritos. But yeah with the salad dressing, I'm down to just a quick drizzle of olive oil & balsamic vinegar with a pinch of salt and pepper. Definitely no waste there. I do make my own on occasion if I want something special (usually cutting a recipe in a 1/3 or 1/4 so it's only how much I need for the meal) and tbh it does taste better made fresh from scratch, without a ton of effort if it's only sometimes. Or I might get a flavored oil/vinegar from a specialty shop, so that's where I could see one beginning to accumulate a lot of bottles.
This is such a good discussion! I stopped buying new clothes all together a few years ago (with a few caveats -- underwear, tights, occasionally shoes, etc) and it's been a lot easier than I thought. I still SHOP, just on used clothing sites and thrift stores, but it's been helpful for me. If I want something new, I'll set an alert for it on ThredUp or Poshmark to see when it comes in. I'm trying to even curb that, because I am still spending too much and the shipping etc is not great for sustainability, but it was a lot easier than I thought to divest from buying anything new. Obviously this gets harder if you have a more unavailable size (I am small fat), and I understand that privilege. I also have a daughter and get all of her clothes used as well. I used to fall more prey to the "no ethical consumption under capitalism" thing as an excuse to buy whatever, and while that's still true, I can't handle contributing so much to waste at this point.
What an absolutely fantastic episode and incredibly timely for me! I'm about three weeks into my Marie Kondo Tidying Festival and it's amazing the way it reworks how you think about your belongings.
The part in the podcast about backstock of toilet paper and skin care products really made think about how an essential piece of the Konmari Method is to gather ALL of your like-items together so that you can see the sheer amount that you own. It's honestly flabbergasting even if you're someone who is decent at discarding things!
What I like about the Konmari Method and much of this podcast is that it's not about "minimalism" which has become associated with moral value and trendiness. Instead, it's about intentially inviting things into your space that make you happy and that you enjoy seeing/doing/eating/etc.
Lastly, I'll say that just by the nature of embarking on the tidying festival, I realized that it's *okay* to have a few meals that I love (most are pasta-based) that I continuously cycle through and to buy food ONLY for those meals, not whatever the hottest new item or things I feel like I "should" like and want to cook. So now my grocery list is pretty much always the same unless I decide to take on a meal as an "experiment" to see if it should join the rotation. And wow has it made all the difference for me.
Anyway, FANTASTIC listen (which I sent to numerous friends because wow, it really got me thinking). Thank you both!!!!!
I was joking with a friend recently that I discovered this radical new thing of eating mostly the same meals every week. I felt this pressure to come up with something new all the time? To, I don’t know, prove my cooking prowess or that I read a lot of cooking blogs? It feels silly in retrospect. I am really loving this curry paste my grocery starting carrying, so we’re having curry twice a week.
Set menus make the grocery shop a lot easier as well! I order groceries online and then drive to collect them so I simply click the “order again” button and all of the usual suspects are back in my cart.
I had to face my overconsumption when we moved from USA to the EU. Weighing “is it cheaper to buy it again than to ship it overseas?” was such a chore. We sold, donated, threw out (those choices were the most shame-inducing) 2/3 of our stuff and we still have TOO MUCH STUFF. It shifted my perspective on consumption pretty dramatically. Now when I decide on a purchase I ask myself “would I want to pay to ship this back across the Atlantic?”. The answer is usually no
There is a similar concept in both my and my brother's professional fields (accounting for me, industrial engineering for my brother) - carrying costs. It's literally just the cost of storing product, eg how much square footage does the storage take up times the cost of that space (and all space has a cost, even if it was somehow completely free there is opportunity cost). It has made for some interesting thought experiments as to whether it's worth essentially paying $10 to store this or that thing for a year, versus using it up or giving it away and replacing it if and when I need it. For our entire adult lives both he and I have lived in smaller homes than the one we grew up in, and that has also been helpful when making decisions about *what* to store.
I just finished shopping my tea collection until it was entirely gone!
I realized that I thought I always needed to have a bunch of kind of teas on hand at all times to offer someone who was visiting...but, like, maybe I've offered said collection to two people in total ever and had the vision of that transaction actually play out.
Now that my tea collection is empty, I'm excited to consider what teas I actually want to have and then use them up and repeat.
Consumerism is SUCH a fraught topic! It's probably impossible to talk about it without veering into restriction, and in our current reality, we're kind of stuck with finding that line for ourselves.
I'm frustrated that attempts to address personal consumption so often start with restriction and elimination — like a buy-nothing month or a Whole 30 diet. We tend to approach this with figuring out what we can live without, which inevitably calls up a diet mentality. It's worth asking why there's no trend of buy-everything months, or, like a "buy everything red I see for a month" — those weird exercises would equally jolt you out of your normal routines and prompt you to ask questions about your consumption habits. And, of course, just like Christyna said, put the responsibility back on the system as much we can — these are not our individual problems to solve!
I think there's a balance to consider with putting responsibility on the system AND still challenging ourselves to be thoughtful in our consumption. As Rachel said in another comment, ONLY holding systems accountable can also veer into excusing our own consumerist tendencies.
I know this wasn't your point, but in 2023 my aunt only allowed herself to buy things that were green (the color; not, like, environmentally friendly per se). It's still a restriction, but at least it's a fun one!
That's a fascinating approach! Definitely a restriction, though I imagine this kind of boundary sure gets you to think outside the box and break through mindless consumption.
Pantry trades are great! My local Buy Nothing group also has a lot of folks giving away food items. I actually used it to clear out some of the weird diet culture crap I was never going to use. I also bought French lentils because I got sucked in by a recipe that sounded amazing and realized that nope, I don't like them at all but other people do and they could use them up!
For toilet paper hoarding, that falls into the category of: if I have space to store this, it doesn't matter how much I have because it will definitely be used (I'll never not need to wipe!) and it does not "go bad" before I can get through it." But there are only a few consumables that are in that category, of course!
Yes, I've been amazed at what people in my local Buy Nothing group will voluntarily show up for - like, the time my MIL left *two* individual yogurt cups here, but they had artificial sweetener which I don't care for. Someone else wanted them! Possibly a sad commentary on food insecurity, but I've found pretty much any food item will fetch at least one not-buyer. (Everyone in my group is very explicit about how long the item has been sitting around and whether or not it's been opened.)
Also came here to recommend your local BuyNothing group!
During the conversation on the podcast where Virginia was saying “but we have this food we’re just not going to eat” and Chrystina says something along the lines of “I just find ways to use up the food I have in my pantry” and I could just FEEL the “listen, we are just NOT going to eat that food!” in Virginia’s voice 😆 and girl, I hear you!!!
BuyNothing is amazing for passing along those 3/4 full boxes of Costco snacks your kids swore they’d love, frozen foods YOU thought you’d love, and even expired foods that haven’t gone bad. I love knowing that someone else will enjoy the stuff I’m feeling guilty for not eating, and I don’t need to force it on my family or throw it away.
Same with my BN group. People are really clear about ingredients, expiration dates, etc. and I know we're helping people stretch their food budgets if we give something away.
It may have already been said, but I came here to mention that if you have food in your pantry that hasn't been opened and you're not using it, you could also liberate it by donating it to a local food bank/donation program, or local program that teaches (anti- diet culture obviously ) cooking classes etc. Additionally women's shelters, youth support centres and the like often receive donations of food, unused toiletries, extra hygiene items, etc. etc. Just PLEASE PLEASE make sure it's not all expired, because then they just have to throw your trash out for you.
Yes! And your food pantry may take it- call and check. Most are allowed to offer food a year past the date- our local one has a cart that is free-for-all with anything the month of expiration and on to a year past that anyone can grab from at any point.
One thing I often think of is an article I read long ago, probably 15 or more years at this point. A reporter from the US went to report on labor organizing in garment factories in Central America, and he was shocked to see the workers who were fighting for better conditions were also, like, wearing Nike shoes. Their response was basically that it was more important to put time and energy into organizing than to make the (non existent) perfect consumer choice. It’s so easy to get obsessive about our own choices, which is of course where we have most control, but it’s much more effective to work toward broader social change.
"Maybe they need to do a little Ariel and brush with a fork." I snort-laughed at this 🤣
There were so many good tidbits of advice and inspiration in this. I'm inspired to make lunch with that box of couscous that's been in the back of my pantry for who knows how long.
Oh my gosh. I laughed out loud at the kohlrabi. I had this problem and had to quit a CSA because of it too. I managed to find a much smaller one that I go in person to (privileged to be able to do that) and you do not take what you won't use. They always have extras of something they got more of than planned (like squash) you can take, and they have u pick greens and herbs and flowers, so it was a much better deal and so much less waste and it makes me so happy to go there.
Also listening to the post about meandering Target AS I'M MEANDERING Target 😂. Tried on a swimsuit I liked (fraught as that process is) I put it back. But scanned the tag and put it in my cart, so next time I shop online if it's on sale then I'll get it. I do this a lot to save myself that impulse money.
I see a lot of people here agreeing with hairbrush story and like... I get where Christyna was coming from AND I am responsible for making sure my kid's hair is brush (a least not painfully knotty). As a teacher I would notice a change in a kid's hair after several days. I really really get where she is coming from but like somethings like the brushes or for me having an extra laundry basket in my kitchen makes sense to me.
I have enough baskets! My kid's hair stuff is in a nice cardboard box that something shipped in and I think the fact I have combs all over my house is super helpful. I think this can be both.
I thought this was an interesting conversation. I see shopping as a really pleasurable activity, so am loathe to restrict it arbitrarily (much like with food). However, it’s easy to feel the burden of overconsumerism, so I would say it’s such a balancing act. What I will suggest as a reframe of the hairbrushes is as follows (and this is more from a finance perspective). This is inventory with an infinite or near infinite shelf life. And if storage costs are not high (as in, you have enough space) and the benefit of lower conflict is there, then perfect, have the hairbrushes. On the judgment of other parents…yeah maybe but honestly they see your kids so little really it’s highly unlikely they are paying attention! In my job hair appearance we would term nonmaterial information; it doesn’t convey anything about a kid unless there are lot of more serious issues teachers are worried about and then hair could be part of a framework / pattern on behavior.
For me anyway, it’s youth goggles. We live my the beach, we have a pool, and my kids are competitive swimmers. 2 years ago I started buying 10-12 pairs of goggles at a time and we have never since faced a goggle shortage. In fact I would say our wealth of goggles (we have a coat stand only for goggles) has actually improved loss as the goggles have a quite obvious home!
This is my favorite conversation you’ve had so far this year — I can’t begin to tell you how much I gleamed from reading this one piece. When you tie food, self-esteem and moralism back to consumerism, it resonates with me in a big way and makes me reconsider a lot of things, and not just salad dressing! (But definitely salad dressing, too!)
I love love LOVE books, but I recently realized how much money I was spending on books on Kindle that...were just sitting there for someday. And they weren't even like, sitting in piles making me feel like I was living in a magical used bookstore, they were on my Kindle just getting lost!
So I finally got a local library card and downloaded Libby and it's AWESOME. I put in a lot of holds. Sometimes I get them and read them, and sometimes it's not time, and I reschedule them, and it's fine! I get excited by the things i have on hold, and when they're available it's a happy free present to myself! AND it comes with the satisfaction of knowing I'm supporting my local library (they benefit from people with library cards, so get one even if you won't use it!). It scratches the shopping itch really really well. I can go after something on my want to read list, or browse and find something neat.
It's especially good because if I start something and don't like it, I can just return it and not feel guilty I wasted $12 on a steampunk novel that turned out to be full of literary devices that irritate me (ahem, for example, ahem, looking at the novel I started last night I definitely wasted money on). It's teaching me to DNF and that's something I should definitely do more of.
I love my local library. When I get the itch to buy books, I go on the website and request all the books I want and pretend I"m online shopping. When they arrive, I pick them up, stack them on my shelf for three weeks and enjoy them. Then I return them for a new batch!
Libraries are the perfect book storage device for me. There are so many things that I want to look at for a little bit but don’t need to own.
Also, when you go to a library, at least in a small town, you often get to talk to lots of other people about the books they’re reading.
And yes, I online shop our libraries hold system at least every couple weeks.
I subscribe to a bunch of kid book lists. And since I homeschool, I am putting Library books on hold instead instead of buying random curriculum items that won’t be used.
Also, Libby is great, and I have a dear friend who continues to maintain all her library cards from living in various districts, so that she has access to multiple library systems for a greater chance of them, owning the book that she wants to read.
If you are on a long-ish vacation somewhere in the US I would suggest checking out the library in that area and seeing if you can get a card.
So true! I don't know why it took me so long to get a library card when I used to love love love the library as a kid. I have a Kindle and it's magical to have my holds move up the list or get notified they bought a book I suggested. I figure doing that exposes more people to the author and helps them as much as me buying one copy ever did.
I love Libby too! I tell everyone about it. I read a lot but I hardly ever buy books because I get them from Libby. Ever since I moved a lot in my twenties, I don't have the appeal to own many physical books. Now we're not likely to move anytime soon, but I'd rather use the limited space in our house to store things other than books. I like to read physical picture books to my kids, but I get those from the library too.
This was a great conversation. Re the hair brushes: My previous therapist referred to this type of thing as “setting fires so you can put them out” and, wow, did I feel very attacked! She described that pattern as a way of “binding” anxiety—basically encapsulating the anxiety in something else that can be neatly dealt with. I have found it an incredibly useful tool, not so much to change behavior but to name for myself what’s going on. For instance, am I currently making lists and doing a lot of thinking about the menu ifor my daughter’s graduation party that is *three* entire months away? Yes. And is that a way of dealing with the many many feelings I have about that milestone? TOTALLY.
Oh GOD yes that is absolutely what I'm doing with the hairbrushes. And hey, sometimes anxiety needs to be bound, I guess? But good to be aware of the pattern...
I felt a pull to defend your practice with the brushes. We need to stay sane and if moments of peace are achieved, I think a purchase can be successful
Me too! I wasn’t comfortable with that part of the conversation. The kid doesn’t want their hair brushed, but the consequences (judgment about the home environment) end up with the parent.
It’s a legitimate anxiety and we aren’t buying extra hairbrushes so the colours match, it’s a way of saving a lot of time, labour and protection from (what would be misplaced) external harassment.
Ah, I appreciate that. Corinne also felt protective of our hair strategy! 😂
My feeling is, it’s helpful for me to notice and examine my shopping-for-solution tendency, and consider whether that’s always the needed solution. The hairbrush example could have been solved another way, but it doesn’t mean the way I solved it is wrong — it’s perfectly fine to conclude that yes, the stakes of hair judgment are high enough to need this to go more smoothly. And someone else might decide it wasn’t worth buying a thing. I think it’s not really about whether you buy the hairbrush or not (the “correctness” of that decision is so personal!) and more about adding that layer of reflection to the process.
Hmmm maybe, but I think the guest’s question “what was their consequence” pretty starkly contrasted with her wise thoughts on self-compassion, and allowing people to know for themselves what they need. What does consequences have to do with any of that? Let alone consequences for children? I hope she reflects on that a little bit. Also to me that is a diet mentality-I have one, and that’s all I’m allowed even if it isn’t meeting my needs. I don’t think it’s well thought-through on her part. And that’s fine. She sounds like an awesome dietitian. But her advice on this isn’t landing for me.
I completely agree Amelia, you put it really well.
I am SO glad you're having this conversation because it's been on my mind a lot in the past year. Previously, to try to be mindful about my purchases, I would put things on a wish list and try to spread them out over the coming months. If, by the time the assigned month came around and I still wanted the thing, then I would get it. And generally this worked for me. Then starting last spring, I was grappling with reinventing my style. This involves a much longer story including weight gain + embracing my shape and how I can rethink playing with my silhouette with fashion + the realization that a lot of my style and clothes I wore were inherited versions of myself and I really wanted to lean further into an identity that was a little bit punk but also breaks down notions of class and gender and also considers the environmental impact of my choices, while embracing that I'm a mom in my 40s, not a teen. (It's a whole thing.) So that required some more purchases than usual, but I was trying to still be mindful and buy secondhand where possible. But then last fall, I hit some stress points and in coping with the stress *and* post-stress relief, I went into kind of a shopping frenzy. I still bought things carefully in the sense that I had really honed my style so there was no purchase I regretted, and I'm not breaking the bank or anything. But I really did not love that I had this real *compulsion* to buy. It definitely had the same feelings like bingeing. So then I tried to go on a shopping "diet" and not buy anything non-essential for two months. That made me want to buy even more and I could totally see how that was like how dieting restrictions make you want to binge. Sometimes shopping and eating fulfill some kind of need that need some awareness about them, but trying to diet isn't the way either.
I've since kind of leveled back out, and I've been using my journal to try to work out what's going on inside. But long story short, I can definitely see parallels between shopping and dieting restrictions, and also how what we consume in food or in other stuff is also really wrapped up in identity and what we want our choices to say about who we are, so it's actually really hard to make these things value or morally neutral.
One last note: I'm currently living in Germany, and here they make you empty & rinse out all the food packaging to separate out food waste versus plastic versus glass, paper, etc. Plus kitchen and fridges are tiny, so you really have to keep on top of getting rid of stuff. It really makes you confront just how much you're throwing away and this makes me feel so guilty every time and/but also mad at how difficult it can be to buy food in portion sizes that actually make sense for our family's needs. And that's another form of placing the guilt burden on the individual when those are systemic choices. [ETA: and how many of those systemic choices deliberately seek to particularly benefit the nuclear family of 2 adults with 2.5 kids]
I just moved to Ireland from Munich and there is no benefit of the doubt or compassion offered with regard to garbage and recycling errors from the Germans (in my experience). Our waste management folks refused to take our food waste for a month because I wasn’t sorting everything correctly! The aggressive lecture I received about what I was doing wrong made me cry. I do not miss that!
Oh no, that's awful. I'm sorry you had to experience that kind of lecturing. I feel your pain though! I literally have a chart from the recycling/trash company printed out that I keep by our kitchen trash for reference. I did have a total moral quandary yesterday when I had a glass bottle still half full of lemonade that I didn't want to finish and also didn't want to continue carrying around while I ran errands. Do I put it beside the trash, where a homeless person can make use of it to get the Pfand? But then that's littering...Do I put it IN the city trash so I'm not littering? But then it's not the proper receptacle for glass. Do I go to a special glass trash receptacle? But it's still half full of liquid. It was total choice paralysis. :/
Did the salad dressing part of the interview make you think of Germany?? I was thinking “having too many choices of premade dressings is not an issue in Munich!” 😂 Best they can do is give you a packet of seasonings. (I actually kind of loved the all things DIY aspect of German culture)
LOL I almost mentioned the salad dressing part in my first comment but refrained since it was already so long! Too many choices of *anything* pre-made is not an issue here. We don't even have a microwave because a) our kitchen is tiny and I want to maximize the space we do have, and b) almost everything I make has to be from scratch. What I wouldn't give to be able to make life just a little easier sometimes by being able to pick up a cooked rotisserie chicken at the supermarket. Or Amy's burritos. But yeah with the salad dressing, I'm down to just a quick drizzle of olive oil & balsamic vinegar with a pinch of salt and pepper. Definitely no waste there. I do make my own on occasion if I want something special (usually cutting a recipe in a 1/3 or 1/4 so it's only how much I need for the meal) and tbh it does taste better made fresh from scratch, without a ton of effort if it's only sometimes. Or I might get a flavored oil/vinegar from a specialty shop, so that's where I could see one beginning to accumulate a lot of bottles.
This is such a good discussion! I stopped buying new clothes all together a few years ago (with a few caveats -- underwear, tights, occasionally shoes, etc) and it's been a lot easier than I thought. I still SHOP, just on used clothing sites and thrift stores, but it's been helpful for me. If I want something new, I'll set an alert for it on ThredUp or Poshmark to see when it comes in. I'm trying to even curb that, because I am still spending too much and the shipping etc is not great for sustainability, but it was a lot easier than I thought to divest from buying anything new. Obviously this gets harder if you have a more unavailable size (I am small fat), and I understand that privilege. I also have a daughter and get all of her clothes used as well. I used to fall more prey to the "no ethical consumption under capitalism" thing as an excuse to buy whatever, and while that's still true, I can't handle contributing so much to waste at this point.
What an absolutely fantastic episode and incredibly timely for me! I'm about three weeks into my Marie Kondo Tidying Festival and it's amazing the way it reworks how you think about your belongings.
The part in the podcast about backstock of toilet paper and skin care products really made think about how an essential piece of the Konmari Method is to gather ALL of your like-items together so that you can see the sheer amount that you own. It's honestly flabbergasting even if you're someone who is decent at discarding things!
What I like about the Konmari Method and much of this podcast is that it's not about "minimalism" which has become associated with moral value and trendiness. Instead, it's about intentially inviting things into your space that make you happy and that you enjoy seeing/doing/eating/etc.
Lastly, I'll say that just by the nature of embarking on the tidying festival, I realized that it's *okay* to have a few meals that I love (most are pasta-based) that I continuously cycle through and to buy food ONLY for those meals, not whatever the hottest new item or things I feel like I "should" like and want to cook. So now my grocery list is pretty much always the same unless I decide to take on a meal as an "experiment" to see if it should join the rotation. And wow has it made all the difference for me.
Anyway, FANTASTIC listen (which I sent to numerous friends because wow, it really got me thinking). Thank you both!!!!!
I was joking with a friend recently that I discovered this radical new thing of eating mostly the same meals every week. I felt this pressure to come up with something new all the time? To, I don’t know, prove my cooking prowess or that I read a lot of cooking blogs? It feels silly in retrospect. I am really loving this curry paste my grocery starting carrying, so we’re having curry twice a week.
Set menus make the grocery shop a lot easier as well! I order groceries online and then drive to collect them so I simply click the “order again” button and all of the usual suspects are back in my cart.
I actually really like Marie Kondo for that perspective, too. The joy and the being more intentional about things coming in or staying.
I had to face my overconsumption when we moved from USA to the EU. Weighing “is it cheaper to buy it again than to ship it overseas?” was such a chore. We sold, donated, threw out (those choices were the most shame-inducing) 2/3 of our stuff and we still have TOO MUCH STUFF. It shifted my perspective on consumption pretty dramatically. Now when I decide on a purchase I ask myself “would I want to pay to ship this back across the Atlantic?”. The answer is usually no
There is a similar concept in both my and my brother's professional fields (accounting for me, industrial engineering for my brother) - carrying costs. It's literally just the cost of storing product, eg how much square footage does the storage take up times the cost of that space (and all space has a cost, even if it was somehow completely free there is opportunity cost). It has made for some interesting thought experiments as to whether it's worth essentially paying $10 to store this or that thing for a year, versus using it up or giving it away and replacing it if and when I need it. For our entire adult lives both he and I have lived in smaller homes than the one we grew up in, and that has also been helpful when making decisions about *what* to store.
I just finished shopping my tea collection until it was entirely gone!
I realized that I thought I always needed to have a bunch of kind of teas on hand at all times to offer someone who was visiting...but, like, maybe I've offered said collection to two people in total ever and had the vision of that transaction actually play out.
Now that my tea collection is empty, I'm excited to consider what teas I actually want to have and then use them up and repeat.
Consumerism is SUCH a fraught topic! It's probably impossible to talk about it without veering into restriction, and in our current reality, we're kind of stuck with finding that line for ourselves.
I'm frustrated that attempts to address personal consumption so often start with restriction and elimination — like a buy-nothing month or a Whole 30 diet. We tend to approach this with figuring out what we can live without, which inevitably calls up a diet mentality. It's worth asking why there's no trend of buy-everything months, or, like a "buy everything red I see for a month" — those weird exercises would equally jolt you out of your normal routines and prompt you to ask questions about your consumption habits. And, of course, just like Christyna said, put the responsibility back on the system as much we can — these are not our individual problems to solve!
I think there's a balance to consider with putting responsibility on the system AND still challenging ourselves to be thoughtful in our consumption. As Rachel said in another comment, ONLY holding systems accountable can also veer into excusing our own consumerist tendencies.
I know this wasn't your point, but in 2023 my aunt only allowed herself to buy things that were green (the color; not, like, environmentally friendly per se). It's still a restriction, but at least it's a fun one!
That's a fascinating approach! Definitely a restriction, though I imagine this kind of boundary sure gets you to think outside the box and break through mindless consumption.
Pantry trades are great! My local Buy Nothing group also has a lot of folks giving away food items. I actually used it to clear out some of the weird diet culture crap I was never going to use. I also bought French lentils because I got sucked in by a recipe that sounded amazing and realized that nope, I don't like them at all but other people do and they could use them up!
For toilet paper hoarding, that falls into the category of: if I have space to store this, it doesn't matter how much I have because it will definitely be used (I'll never not need to wipe!) and it does not "go bad" before I can get through it." But there are only a few consumables that are in that category, of course!
Yes, I've been amazed at what people in my local Buy Nothing group will voluntarily show up for - like, the time my MIL left *two* individual yogurt cups here, but they had artificial sweetener which I don't care for. Someone else wanted them! Possibly a sad commentary on food insecurity, but I've found pretty much any food item will fetch at least one not-buyer. (Everyone in my group is very explicit about how long the item has been sitting around and whether or not it's been opened.)
Also came here to recommend your local BuyNothing group!
During the conversation on the podcast where Virginia was saying “but we have this food we’re just not going to eat” and Chrystina says something along the lines of “I just find ways to use up the food I have in my pantry” and I could just FEEL the “listen, we are just NOT going to eat that food!” in Virginia’s voice 😆 and girl, I hear you!!!
BuyNothing is amazing for passing along those 3/4 full boxes of Costco snacks your kids swore they’d love, frozen foods YOU thought you’d love, and even expired foods that haven’t gone bad. I love knowing that someone else will enjoy the stuff I’m feeling guilty for not eating, and I don’t need to force it on my family or throw it away.
Same with my BN group. People are really clear about ingredients, expiration dates, etc. and I know we're helping people stretch their food budgets if we give something away.
Whoops, misspelled Christyna’s name! I’m so sorry!
It may have already been said, but I came here to mention that if you have food in your pantry that hasn't been opened and you're not using it, you could also liberate it by donating it to a local food bank/donation program, or local program that teaches (anti- diet culture obviously ) cooking classes etc. Additionally women's shelters, youth support centres and the like often receive donations of food, unused toiletries, extra hygiene items, etc. etc. Just PLEASE PLEASE make sure it's not all expired, because then they just have to throw your trash out for you.
If it IS expired, try your local Buy Nothing group if you have one. People take expired food all the time. Expiration dates (usually) mean nothing.
Yes! And your food pantry may take it- call and check. Most are allowed to offer food a year past the date- our local one has a cart that is free-for-all with anything the month of expiration and on to a year past that anyone can grab from at any point.
Ohhh! Good point. I'm not on one of those, so I forgot about that!
The hairbrush story is extremely relatable!
One thing I often think of is an article I read long ago, probably 15 or more years at this point. A reporter from the US went to report on labor organizing in garment factories in Central America, and he was shocked to see the workers who were fighting for better conditions were also, like, wearing Nike shoes. Their response was basically that it was more important to put time and energy into organizing than to make the (non existent) perfect consumer choice. It’s so easy to get obsessive about our own choices, which is of course where we have most control, but it’s much more effective to work toward broader social change.
"Maybe they need to do a little Ariel and brush with a fork." I snort-laughed at this 🤣
There were so many good tidbits of advice and inspiration in this. I'm inspired to make lunch with that box of couscous that's been in the back of my pantry for who knows how long.
Oh my gosh. I laughed out loud at the kohlrabi. I had this problem and had to quit a CSA because of it too. I managed to find a much smaller one that I go in person to (privileged to be able to do that) and you do not take what you won't use. They always have extras of something they got more of than planned (like squash) you can take, and they have u pick greens and herbs and flowers, so it was a much better deal and so much less waste and it makes me so happy to go there.
Also listening to the post about meandering Target AS I'M MEANDERING Target 😂. Tried on a swimsuit I liked (fraught as that process is) I put it back. But scanned the tag and put it in my cart, so next time I shop online if it's on sale then I'll get it. I do this a lot to save myself that impulse money.
Ahaha I love that you were mid-meander. And also, that is such a good strategy!!
I see a lot of people here agreeing with hairbrush story and like... I get where Christyna was coming from AND I am responsible for making sure my kid's hair is brush (a least not painfully knotty). As a teacher I would notice a change in a kid's hair after several days. I really really get where she is coming from but like somethings like the brushes or for me having an extra laundry basket in my kitchen makes sense to me.
I have enough baskets! My kid's hair stuff is in a nice cardboard box that something shipped in and I think the fact I have combs all over my house is super helpful. I think this can be both.
I thought this was an interesting conversation. I see shopping as a really pleasurable activity, so am loathe to restrict it arbitrarily (much like with food). However, it’s easy to feel the burden of overconsumerism, so I would say it’s such a balancing act. What I will suggest as a reframe of the hairbrushes is as follows (and this is more from a finance perspective). This is inventory with an infinite or near infinite shelf life. And if storage costs are not high (as in, you have enough space) and the benefit of lower conflict is there, then perfect, have the hairbrushes. On the judgment of other parents…yeah maybe but honestly they see your kids so little really it’s highly unlikely they are paying attention! In my job hair appearance we would term nonmaterial information; it doesn’t convey anything about a kid unless there are lot of more serious issues teachers are worried about and then hair could be part of a framework / pattern on behavior.
For me anyway, it’s youth goggles. We live my the beach, we have a pool, and my kids are competitive swimmers. 2 years ago I started buying 10-12 pairs of goggles at a time and we have never since faced a goggle shortage. In fact I would say our wealth of goggles (we have a coat stand only for goggles) has actually improved loss as the goggles have a quite obvious home!
This is my favorite conversation you’ve had so far this year — I can’t begin to tell you how much I gleamed from reading this one piece. When you tie food, self-esteem and moralism back to consumerism, it resonates with me in a big way and makes me reconsider a lot of things, and not just salad dressing! (But definitely salad dressing, too!)
*gleaned