Aug 10, 2023Liked by Corinne Fay, Virginia Sole-Smith
A few years ago I found something I’d never heard of called a “towel sheet” which I guess is the top of inclusivity for most brands. And when guests come over they have such a light on their faces: the towels feel so good! I love when house guests are extra cozy and I’m very glad for Towel so I can toss an extra towel size or two into the rotation. ☀️
***
Also, I know we talk fashion a lot here but I haven’t seen anything about how arm holes fit. Is that a thing? Growing up, folks in my family had REAL feelings about the size of our arms (this was the 90s, so before the ultra glamorization of arm sculpting). I realized in my early 30s, and all my body work was starting to shine a light on just how generationally stuck we are, that the females in our family have larger arms because we’re like really, really strong. In my gentle movement journey, I discovered that if my body is going to, by default, grow more muscle, it’s in my arms first and foremost. Kind of how some folks are genetically predisposed to larger calf muscles or wider jaw lines. Anyways, discovering this then that made me really mad at how often I have to return things because they don’t have room for my arms. Even if you don’t grow more muscle in your arms, we deserve a good fit. Arms aren’t toothpicks, people!! OK, end: 🧼 📦
Also FYI a piece of clothing with too tight arms is one of the trademarks of a poorly graded plus size pattern! That is specifically one of the areas where it quickly becomes obvious that a body that does not get larger in a linear fashion. You may be genetically predisposed to larger arms but also patternmakers sometimes just do a bad job!
I am notorious for just straight up tearing open the seams of some items just to make room for my arms at the shoulder, otherwise my armpits get chafed. “Unisex” sizing shirts LOVE being weirdly tight in the arm holes.
YEP! I grab my scissors and make a "dart" in the sleeves. Or I just wear tank tops—which does solve a lot of problems. But sometimes sleeves ARE CUTE AND I WANT THEM.
Oh, I think about this all the time. My boyfriend and I belong to a wonderful, friendly and generally size-inclusive gym. Every time I go there are people of all ages, sizes and races, it’s truly the most diverse gym I’ve ever been to. And they have a towel service, but they are the world’s tiniest towels. I am 5’5” and a size 12 (and 14, and 16, and sometimes even 10 because who the hell knows, as you mention in this newsletter), and these towels do not remotely fit around me. I also recently attended a conference at my Alma mater where sheets and towels were provided and I ended up going to Target and purchasing my own towel because the ones they provided were not even close (thankfully I am able to do that, and now that towel is my gym towel!). And if this is happening to me, as someone with quite a lot of thin privilege in this world, I cannot imagine how demoralizing it feels to people in larger bodies than mine. I will definitely be purchasing from Towel as soon as I can!
I have been to several spas where the robes they give me are dangerously close to flashing my undies to everyone because they aren’t wide enough in the hips. I have to be very careful how I walk around and sit while reading or waiting for my treatments lest I get too flashy. It’s so wild to spend $200+ on a spa day and still can’t fully relax.
I have always bought bath sheets and specifically the ones that go up to 70 inches because those just fit around my chest and that’s been “good enough.” My favorite towels that I use everyday are 23 years old as I got them when I went to college from a special service for dorms. They are the most inclusive size of any towel I’ve ever had. There is a company selling a big towel at 100 inches. That’s all I’ve found in better size options. I’m glad this kickstarter exists. However, towels are a great example of the fat tax because other people can buy a nice towel that fits them for less than a third of the price. And many of us are paid less as fat people and can’t afford the fat tax.
Aug 10, 2023Liked by Corinne Fay, Virginia Sole-Smith
What an amazing idea for a company--I have totally been there, letting a tiny generic shitty gym towel making me feel like a shameful person because I couldn't make it go around me without holding it down with my arm.
Aug 10, 2023Liked by Corinne Fay, Virginia Sole-Smith
The discussion about plus sized sections and centering plus sized clothing in stores is so interesting. I would so much rather see something cute on any rack in a store and walk up with the (honestly radical) thought that they might have that cute piece of clothing in my size on that rack. Which is I think the consensus in the conversation, too. But it makes me think that Old Navy did it right! What am I missing!?
I think the idea is that maybe plus size folks won’t know a store even carries plus sizes if there isn’t a dedicated plus section just because that’s how we have shopped for so long.
The Old Navy episode I did with Mia O'Malley (linked in transcript) goes into way more detail but basically it's what Corinne says. Plus there was wild inconsistency in terms of which stores were actually stocking the largest sizes. And we were still walking into stores with mostly thin mannequins and no obvious attempt made to welcome fat folks into mainstream spaces. (Plus, as Mary notes above, the fit sucked!)
Corinne and Virginia- thank you for the replies! I totally get it now - we need the green light to even know we can walk into a store and (shocker!) have the option to buy something. Capitalism is so broken and yet *still* won't touch fat people. I think, as a plus-sized person who loves self expression through clothes, but is routinely reminded that that world is not for me (save for a few great brands - some of which I have learned about here - still drooling over your Wray dress!!) the thought of walking into a store and just shopping for clothes in that store is simply a revelation, and I was blinded by that basic, simple dream. Thanks as always for the clarity. And yes, the fits suck. (As and aside I also found the "extended size" vs "plus size" distinction really fascinating too!)
Really craving more discussion around sizing and why the industry can't use waist inches and inseam inches and any other useful measurements why do we have to obfuscate measurements with words or downsizing rather than use the actual numbers we use to measure the cloth cut?
Thank you for writing about that and pointing me at the resources - I am so boggled by why a measurement of my arm or waist or chest brings such fury and shame inside msyelf and others. Has there ever been a long term study of body measurements over a lifespan so we can scientifically show how normal it is for bodies to change? I am no longer 12 and hate that fashion tries to convince me I should still fit into clothes from that time. I am no longer that person or body - stop shaming me for growing and changing. /endrant
Aug 10, 2023·edited Aug 10, 2023Liked by Virginia Sole-Smith
The Towels are beautiful— such a simple but meaningful idea. I wonder, is it likely that as the business and customer base grow, the prices of the Towels will decrease? Or am I just naive about what high quality towels cost?
I do think pricing is a big tension for this kind of product. I'm happy to spend more to support a small, woman/fat-owned business producing high quality work. OTOH, yes, price impacts acccessibility in a big way. It's so tough.
Yeah absolutely— I feel very sympathetic to both impulses. But maybe the buyers who can afford them now will put the company in a position to have a sale at some point!
I agree the price is hard. I was looking at these cute new Star Wars really large towels from sandcloud for my new place but they’re like $80 each. Considering how trashed my four target towels have become over three years since my last move, idk if I want to spend so much on towels that will shrink, get stained, and fray after only a few years of use.
I feel this way about Aerie. I love their stuff, they do relatively good work not only having diverse models but also with their range of accessible clothes for people who might have motor skill problems or other such disabilities that make dressing harder. But if you go into a physical location, they almost never have as big of a range in store as they do online. Which is wild because they mostly sell stuff like panties, bras, pajamas, lounge wear stuff and I cannot imagine it takes up that much space in store that you have to gatekeep like that. Like just have a sales associate constantly refilling the little drawers and stuff.
We had to bring our own linens on our beach trip and my mom has these old towels from like the 90s she always brings on trips because she doesn’t care if they get lost. I asked like honestly what the fuck, these towels only fit around my 4 yo child. I used my extra beach towels on the trip. We repainted our bathroom recently and I think it’s time for us to buy new towels that actually fit all of us!
I think it was when you reposted it on insta, virginia, that I saw the kickstarter campaign. I jumped on it so fast. I'm small fat with a large chest, and I genuinely can't remember the last time towels truly wrapped all around my body. yes, the "bath sheets" are better, but they still don't fully do the job AND they cost more. and beach towels work a bit better at being longer, but they also are often not very wide and you can't get solid ones that will match your bathroom either.
I ordered this towel and I'm stoked about it. I will probably order a couple more, but price is the thing. what we need (and not asking Mary to do this! we've got to start somewhere) is for anything larger than a hand towel to be the same price and be available in all the stores in all the colors. we need hotels and airbnbs and spas to just have those towels by default--not just if someone needs them or on request, but they need to be the base towel. I do hope that as the company grows, towel will be able to do some wholesaling to hotels and spas (or encourage another company to get into that space).
it feels like all of this is an impossible dream, and isn't that just a mess? it shouldn't be like this, but it is. I'm excited for Mary and towel, and other companies who are working on it. can't wait to get my towel!
Just now getting caught up on the podcast episodes!
I love the idea of this kickstarter! I was looking for new towels and read a review by Wardrobe Oxygen (Alison Gary - highly recommend her stuff!) that recommended the Charisma towels sold at Costco. I never would have considered the bath sheet size before but she specifically mentioned them. They are reasonably priced so I snagged a few for my husband and I (the kids got the regular size towels!) My life has changed so much with these towels! I'm a size 18 or so, and the towels are plenty big to wrap around me after a shower. I love them so much!
Love the discussion about clothing size inclusivity, too. I'm also done with fitting rooms, mostly because I'm tall as well as plus size, and if a store even offers tall sizes, they're usually only available online. So I buy online, try on at home, and return in store if needed. I have found with Old Navy the style makes a HUGE difference in the fit. I never used to wear Old Navy jeans at all, they fit my curvy shape terribly. But now they have the "highest high rise" fits, especially the wide leg and loose styles that work with my generous calves, and I have probably 8 pairs of their jeans in my closet now! I love them so much! I do have to try on first, though, as the different washes/colors can fit quite differently.
Coming to this one very late - but WOW I can't get over how shitty and tiny the towels are at nice hotels. I was in Miami a couple weeks ago, taking my teen to meet a tour group to do sea turtle conservation in Costa Rica. To my delight, it turns out you can get a GREAT deal on a super-fancy hotel in Miami in the middle of July. And also? The towels were like f---ing postage stamps. It was so bad that I actually filled out the after-checkout survey they emailed me. I truly do not understand it.
Such a great business idea and excited to see what else comes of it! My body hasn’t fit into “normal” towels since I was a teenager. For years I bought bath sheets or even larger ones once Amazon became such a thing but I hate how heavy they are and my washer and dryer too too. I started using a Turkish towel that was advertised as a towel AND throw blanket, which means it is larger than most: 61x82”. It took me awhile to get used to the super thin fabric but I am completely converted now. It dries super quickly since it is thin and also packs down very small so I do take it whenever I travel.
And I consider it life-changing to have a towel that wraps around me so snuggly. I imagine that is exactly what THE Towel by Mary will do for folks! While I will stick with mine for the reasons mentioned above, I am sad it is advertised as being essentially a totally different product, as though the company (Bersuse, if anyone is interested, available on Amazon, around $20-30, usually some colors are more discounted then others) could not imagine anyone being big enough to warrant a towel of these proportions. I love seeing the bodies of familiar shapes and proportions on the Towel website! If y’all ever decide to make a Turkish style towel, please know I will be a loyal customer!
A few years ago I found something I’d never heard of called a “towel sheet” which I guess is the top of inclusivity for most brands. And when guests come over they have such a light on their faces: the towels feel so good! I love when house guests are extra cozy and I’m very glad for Towel so I can toss an extra towel size or two into the rotation. ☀️
***
Also, I know we talk fashion a lot here but I haven’t seen anything about how arm holes fit. Is that a thing? Growing up, folks in my family had REAL feelings about the size of our arms (this was the 90s, so before the ultra glamorization of arm sculpting). I realized in my early 30s, and all my body work was starting to shine a light on just how generationally stuck we are, that the females in our family have larger arms because we’re like really, really strong. In my gentle movement journey, I discovered that if my body is going to, by default, grow more muscle, it’s in my arms first and foremost. Kind of how some folks are genetically predisposed to larger calf muscles or wider jaw lines. Anyways, discovering this then that made me really mad at how often I have to return things because they don’t have room for my arms. Even if you don’t grow more muscle in your arms, we deserve a good fit. Arms aren’t toothpicks, people!! OK, end: 🧼 📦
Also FYI a piece of clothing with too tight arms is one of the trademarks of a poorly graded plus size pattern! That is specifically one of the areas where it quickly becomes obvious that a body that does not get larger in a linear fashion. You may be genetically predisposed to larger arms but also patternmakers sometimes just do a bad job!
Haha this is great. How many times have I been in a dressing room and asked, DO THEY EVEN MEASURE HUMANS FOR THIS STUFF? ☀️
I am notorious for just straight up tearing open the seams of some items just to make room for my arms at the shoulder, otherwise my armpits get chafed. “Unisex” sizing shirts LOVE being weirdly tight in the arm holes.
YEP! I grab my scissors and make a "dart" in the sleeves. Or I just wear tank tops—which does solve a lot of problems. But sometimes sleeves ARE CUTE AND I WANT THEM.
Oh, I think about this all the time. My boyfriend and I belong to a wonderful, friendly and generally size-inclusive gym. Every time I go there are people of all ages, sizes and races, it’s truly the most diverse gym I’ve ever been to. And they have a towel service, but they are the world’s tiniest towels. I am 5’5” and a size 12 (and 14, and 16, and sometimes even 10 because who the hell knows, as you mention in this newsletter), and these towels do not remotely fit around me. I also recently attended a conference at my Alma mater where sheets and towels were provided and I ended up going to Target and purchasing my own towel because the ones they provided were not even close (thankfully I am able to do that, and now that towel is my gym towel!). And if this is happening to me, as someone with quite a lot of thin privilege in this world, I cannot imagine how demoralizing it feels to people in larger bodies than mine. I will definitely be purchasing from Towel as soon as I can!
I have been to several spas where the robes they give me are dangerously close to flashing my undies to everyone because they aren’t wide enough in the hips. I have to be very careful how I walk around and sit while reading or waiting for my treatments lest I get too flashy. It’s so wild to spend $200+ on a spa day and still can’t fully relax.
I have always bought bath sheets and specifically the ones that go up to 70 inches because those just fit around my chest and that’s been “good enough.” My favorite towels that I use everyday are 23 years old as I got them when I went to college from a special service for dorms. They are the most inclusive size of any towel I’ve ever had. There is a company selling a big towel at 100 inches. That’s all I’ve found in better size options. I’m glad this kickstarter exists. However, towels are a great example of the fat tax because other people can buy a nice towel that fits them for less than a third of the price. And many of us are paid less as fat people and can’t afford the fat tax.
Yup, yup on the fat tax. It's tricky!
What an amazing idea for a company--I have totally been there, letting a tiny generic shitty gym towel making me feel like a shameful person because I couldn't make it go around me without holding it down with my arm.
Truly!
The discussion about plus sized sections and centering plus sized clothing in stores is so interesting. I would so much rather see something cute on any rack in a store and walk up with the (honestly radical) thought that they might have that cute piece of clothing in my size on that rack. Which is I think the consensus in the conversation, too. But it makes me think that Old Navy did it right! What am I missing!?
I think the idea is that maybe plus size folks won’t know a store even carries plus sizes if there isn’t a dedicated plus section just because that’s how we have shopped for so long.
The Old Navy episode I did with Mia O'Malley (linked in transcript) goes into way more detail but basically it's what Corinne says. Plus there was wild inconsistency in terms of which stores were actually stocking the largest sizes. And we were still walking into stores with mostly thin mannequins and no obvious attempt made to welcome fat folks into mainstream spaces. (Plus, as Mary notes above, the fit sucked!)
Corinne and Virginia- thank you for the replies! I totally get it now - we need the green light to even know we can walk into a store and (shocker!) have the option to buy something. Capitalism is so broken and yet *still* won't touch fat people. I think, as a plus-sized person who loves self expression through clothes, but is routinely reminded that that world is not for me (save for a few great brands - some of which I have learned about here - still drooling over your Wray dress!!) the thought of walking into a store and just shopping for clothes in that store is simply a revelation, and I was blinded by that basic, simple dream. Thanks as always for the clarity. And yes, the fits suck. (As and aside I also found the "extended size" vs "plus size" distinction really fascinating too!)
Oh it is ABSOLUTELY the dream. And thank goodness for the few brands that do get it!
Really craving more discussion around sizing and why the industry can't use waist inches and inseam inches and any other useful measurements why do we have to obfuscate measurements with words or downsizing rather than use the actual numbers we use to measure the cloth cut?
Check out my Jeans Science series -- there is a lot more reporting on the sizing/fit issues there!
Thank you for writing about that and pointing me at the resources - I am so boggled by why a measurement of my arm or waist or chest brings such fury and shame inside msyelf and others. Has there ever been a long term study of body measurements over a lifespan so we can scientifically show how normal it is for bodies to change? I am no longer 12 and hate that fashion tries to convince me I should still fit into clothes from that time. I am no longer that person or body - stop shaming me for growing and changing. /endrant
Especially if you consider men’s clothing usually works with measurements of their chest, waist, and neck, as far as I know.
I just pre-ordered a towel from Mary - omg! Thanks, this is a daily quality of life issue. I am so excited... and robes? YES please!
SO excited for robes.
The Towels are beautiful— such a simple but meaningful idea. I wonder, is it likely that as the business and customer base grow, the prices of the Towels will decrease? Or am I just naive about what high quality towels cost?
I do think pricing is a big tension for this kind of product. I'm happy to spend more to support a small, woman/fat-owned business producing high quality work. OTOH, yes, price impacts acccessibility in a big way. It's so tough.
Yeah absolutely— I feel very sympathetic to both impulses. But maybe the buyers who can afford them now will put the company in a position to have a sale at some point!
I agree the price is hard. I was looking at these cute new Star Wars really large towels from sandcloud for my new place but they’re like $80 each. Considering how trashed my four target towels have become over three years since my last move, idk if I want to spend so much on towels that will shrink, get stained, and fray after only a few years of use.
I'm the same, I'm not sure how to make a towel last very long! Although the star wars towels do sound cool
I feel this way about Aerie. I love their stuff, they do relatively good work not only having diverse models but also with their range of accessible clothes for people who might have motor skill problems or other such disabilities that make dressing harder. But if you go into a physical location, they almost never have as big of a range in store as they do online. Which is wild because they mostly sell stuff like panties, bras, pajamas, lounge wear stuff and I cannot imagine it takes up that much space in store that you have to gatekeep like that. Like just have a sales associate constantly refilling the little drawers and stuff.
We had to bring our own linens on our beach trip and my mom has these old towels from like the 90s she always brings on trips because she doesn’t care if they get lost. I asked like honestly what the fuck, these towels only fit around my 4 yo child. I used my extra beach towels on the trip. We repainted our bathroom recently and I think it’s time for us to buy new towels that actually fit all of us!
I think it was when you reposted it on insta, virginia, that I saw the kickstarter campaign. I jumped on it so fast. I'm small fat with a large chest, and I genuinely can't remember the last time towels truly wrapped all around my body. yes, the "bath sheets" are better, but they still don't fully do the job AND they cost more. and beach towels work a bit better at being longer, but they also are often not very wide and you can't get solid ones that will match your bathroom either.
I ordered this towel and I'm stoked about it. I will probably order a couple more, but price is the thing. what we need (and not asking Mary to do this! we've got to start somewhere) is for anything larger than a hand towel to be the same price and be available in all the stores in all the colors. we need hotels and airbnbs and spas to just have those towels by default--not just if someone needs them or on request, but they need to be the base towel. I do hope that as the company grows, towel will be able to do some wholesaling to hotels and spas (or encourage another company to get into that space).
it feels like all of this is an impossible dream, and isn't that just a mess? it shouldn't be like this, but it is. I'm excited for Mary and towel, and other companies who are working on it. can't wait to get my towel!
I just recently bought that same jumpsuit and i love it!
Also, I’m sure Mary’s eventual robes will be great, but Peridot Robes is a great fat-owned, small brand making size-inclusive robes right now.
Just now getting caught up on the podcast episodes!
I love the idea of this kickstarter! I was looking for new towels and read a review by Wardrobe Oxygen (Alison Gary - highly recommend her stuff!) that recommended the Charisma towels sold at Costco. I never would have considered the bath sheet size before but she specifically mentioned them. They are reasonably priced so I snagged a few for my husband and I (the kids got the regular size towels!) My life has changed so much with these towels! I'm a size 18 or so, and the towels are plenty big to wrap around me after a shower. I love them so much!
Love the discussion about clothing size inclusivity, too. I'm also done with fitting rooms, mostly because I'm tall as well as plus size, and if a store even offers tall sizes, they're usually only available online. So I buy online, try on at home, and return in store if needed. I have found with Old Navy the style makes a HUGE difference in the fit. I never used to wear Old Navy jeans at all, they fit my curvy shape terribly. But now they have the "highest high rise" fits, especially the wide leg and loose styles that work with my generous calves, and I have probably 8 pairs of their jeans in my closet now! I love them so much! I do have to try on first, though, as the different washes/colors can fit quite differently.
Coming to this one very late - but WOW I can't get over how shitty and tiny the towels are at nice hotels. I was in Miami a couple weeks ago, taking my teen to meet a tour group to do sea turtle conservation in Costa Rica. To my delight, it turns out you can get a GREAT deal on a super-fancy hotel in Miami in the middle of July. And also? The towels were like f---ing postage stamps. It was so bad that I actually filled out the after-checkout survey they emailed me. I truly do not understand it.
Such a great business idea and excited to see what else comes of it! My body hasn’t fit into “normal” towels since I was a teenager. For years I bought bath sheets or even larger ones once Amazon became such a thing but I hate how heavy they are and my washer and dryer too too. I started using a Turkish towel that was advertised as a towel AND throw blanket, which means it is larger than most: 61x82”. It took me awhile to get used to the super thin fabric but I am completely converted now. It dries super quickly since it is thin and also packs down very small so I do take it whenever I travel.
And I consider it life-changing to have a towel that wraps around me so snuggly. I imagine that is exactly what THE Towel by Mary will do for folks! While I will stick with mine for the reasons mentioned above, I am sad it is advertised as being essentially a totally different product, as though the company (Bersuse, if anyone is interested, available on Amazon, around $20-30, usually some colors are more discounted then others) could not imagine anyone being big enough to warrant a towel of these proportions. I love seeing the bodies of familiar shapes and proportions on the Towel website! If y’all ever decide to make a Turkish style towel, please know I will be a loyal customer!
As a small fat person in need of a new robe I cannot wait for Mary to get those into production!