I really love the point about reframing our "permissive" changes, and considering them accommodations. I have a friend who is blind and her husband is also blind, and they have two sighted children. And she has pointed out to me that the world makes plenty of "accommodations" for sighted people - we are just (pardon the phrasing) blind to them, because we expect them. For example - lightbulbs. Lightbulbs are an accommodation for sighted people, to allow them to navigate spaces safely regardless of the time of day! Mind blown! For some reason we don't like to consider ourselves as needing "accommodations." But we all do! And once we confront the ways in which the world accommodates us, it can really free up the emotional peace to accommodate other people, even kids, even with food - these two lightning-rod control issues in our culture.
I am sort of in awe of the point about hunger not always being felt in the stomach. And actually identifying where your child may feel hunger, with them!! I have a kid who is basically a snake - he feels hunger, like, once every few days, and eats a lot at those times; but the rest of the time he's just hangry, physically aggressive, prone to meltdowns. I feel like there has been, over my life, so much emphasis on what ISN'T hunger - "feeling bored isn't the same as being hungry!" "thirst can be mistaken for hunger!" straight to the "will nursing as a soothing mechanism teach your child to eat for comfort?" etc - and I have never considered that all that conditioning might be actively harming my ability to help my child identify other hunger cues, besides actual gnawing physical hunger in the stomach. My kid will be like "I'm not hungry!" and I'll get into this stupid debate like "I can tell that you are, you just don't feel it yet!" and like....why am I not just verbally identifying these other things he's feeling, as hunger cues? Why am I not talking through what he IS feeling, instead of empty stomach-gnawing hunger, and pointing out that for him, that is what hungry sometimes feels like???
Ohhhhh the light bulb example is SO POWERFUL and helpful. And yes yes yes to the hunger cues thing. It's honestly wild that we think we should and can know how this thoroughly internal experience feels to another person.
My children are grown, and I read this with great interest- I was also an art teacher and encountered so many different ways that children are…. This discussion was so interesting.
I really resonated in a different way with the part where you feel bad because your child Is not a “typical” eater, but not because of my kids’ eating (tho there was some of that) but because my oldest child was so sensitive - touch wise. I remember the horrible times we had when i tried to get his hair washed without getting any water in his face. I had friends who could dump a bucket of water over their child’s head and it didnt faze them. I just feel really aware of that knowledge now and how I may have looked at it as - he’s just sensitive. And he was. He has a 9 yo daughter now who is very much like him, and I am so grateful my daughter-in-law is a very compassionate woman who really is tune with her girls’ sensitivities. I dont mean to distract from the food issue, but to become aware of this has really made me remember some tough bath (and swimming pool) times.
I still don't like water on my face and it never occurred to me that this was an actual sensitivity instead of a preference (whatever that means?), but I remember my mom and I really struggling with it. reading your comment was helpful for me
Touch sensitivity is a real thing. And it could be pressure, texture, cold, wet- any and all of it. Jonny outgrew his water issue, but still has to have socks that are not uncomfortable at the toes and I sort of laugh at him (lol) when hes getting ready for cold weather up here and arranges his jeans inside his boots. And hes 40!
I think it is really helpful to think of it in a sensory way instead of just preferring - because preferring indicates that you can control your reaction, and I know that is not the case!
Thank you so much for this! My son is a neurodivergent kid in a bigger body who likes limited foods and they are mostly sugary foods (and struggled with teeth brushing) I feel guilty all the time because I feel like I shouldn't be feeing him that way but other foods are too hard right now. I've been learning so much from everything you share, but Nuareen's perspective and your discussion is so helpful and validating.
Thank you for this nuanced approach and ways to talk to my ND 6 yo about eating- the headache thing is something he has mentioned. He is not medicated but we have been noticing he doesn’t want to eat in the morning bc he feels rushed and likes to be one of the first kids at school to give him processing time before everyone gets there. Trusting that he knows what he needs and validating how he feels/believing him seems most important to me. And I don’t want my kid to feel broken, as late diagnosed adults my husband and I never really knew why we were different as kids and I want better for my child.
I really loved this conversation, and am so grateful to you for having it!
Especially the part about the freedom from expectations and changing up mealtimes to make everyone happy.
I will say, as the parent of the 23 year old, I did feel a little judged and misunderstood--i swear, I am not in fantasizing! Yes 23 is an adult, something we discuss with her often.
Maybe it’s how I phrased things...I think the core of my quandary is how does someone who is ASD and on meds which interfere with hunger develop a more balanced intuitive eating sense.
I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and knowing my daughter has a processing delay (basically, she might need 5 minutes to wrap her head around something--all kinds of things. For instance, if she tries on shoes, or tastes a new food, she may say “that’s great/that doesn’t work” instantly, but after a few minutes change to catch up, give a more accurate report. So what I am landing on is, if it seems like an out of balance, that would really given me a stomach ache amount of food request, I will sometimes say, Are you sure? Do you want to wait five or ten minutes and then come back for more if you want it?
I apologize for making you feel defensive. It’s a drawback of email questions often that we may ascribe the wrong tone — and while I think the issue of infantilizing neurodivergent adults in general is important to bring up, we should have been clearer that we were mentioning that as a broader concern not a critique of your parenting. Glad you otherwise found the episode useful!
I really love the point about reframing our "permissive" changes, and considering them accommodations. I have a friend who is blind and her husband is also blind, and they have two sighted children. And she has pointed out to me that the world makes plenty of "accommodations" for sighted people - we are just (pardon the phrasing) blind to them, because we expect them. For example - lightbulbs. Lightbulbs are an accommodation for sighted people, to allow them to navigate spaces safely regardless of the time of day! Mind blown! For some reason we don't like to consider ourselves as needing "accommodations." But we all do! And once we confront the ways in which the world accommodates us, it can really free up the emotional peace to accommodate other people, even kids, even with food - these two lightning-rod control issues in our culture.
I am sort of in awe of the point about hunger not always being felt in the stomach. And actually identifying where your child may feel hunger, with them!! I have a kid who is basically a snake - he feels hunger, like, once every few days, and eats a lot at those times; but the rest of the time he's just hangry, physically aggressive, prone to meltdowns. I feel like there has been, over my life, so much emphasis on what ISN'T hunger - "feeling bored isn't the same as being hungry!" "thirst can be mistaken for hunger!" straight to the "will nursing as a soothing mechanism teach your child to eat for comfort?" etc - and I have never considered that all that conditioning might be actively harming my ability to help my child identify other hunger cues, besides actual gnawing physical hunger in the stomach. My kid will be like "I'm not hungry!" and I'll get into this stupid debate like "I can tell that you are, you just don't feel it yet!" and like....why am I not just verbally identifying these other things he's feeling, as hunger cues? Why am I not talking through what he IS feeling, instead of empty stomach-gnawing hunger, and pointing out that for him, that is what hungry sometimes feels like???
Ohhhhh the light bulb example is SO POWERFUL and helpful. And yes yes yes to the hunger cues thing. It's honestly wild that we think we should and can know how this thoroughly internal experience feels to another person.
My children are grown, and I read this with great interest- I was also an art teacher and encountered so many different ways that children are…. This discussion was so interesting.
I really resonated in a different way with the part where you feel bad because your child Is not a “typical” eater, but not because of my kids’ eating (tho there was some of that) but because my oldest child was so sensitive - touch wise. I remember the horrible times we had when i tried to get his hair washed without getting any water in his face. I had friends who could dump a bucket of water over their child’s head and it didnt faze them. I just feel really aware of that knowledge now and how I may have looked at it as - he’s just sensitive. And he was. He has a 9 yo daughter now who is very much like him, and I am so grateful my daughter-in-law is a very compassionate woman who really is tune with her girls’ sensitivities. I dont mean to distract from the food issue, but to become aware of this has really made me remember some tough bath (and swimming pool) times.
Oh I feel you! One of mine is also touch sensitive and hair washing and brushing is often a nightmare.
And we had the sock in the shoe issue and the pants tucked in the boots thing as well……. And again, his oldest daughter has that as well
I still don't like water on my face and it never occurred to me that this was an actual sensitivity instead of a preference (whatever that means?), but I remember my mom and I really struggling with it. reading your comment was helpful for me
Touch sensitivity is a real thing. And it could be pressure, texture, cold, wet- any and all of it. Jonny outgrew his water issue, but still has to have socks that are not uncomfortable at the toes and I sort of laugh at him (lol) when hes getting ready for cold weather up here and arranges his jeans inside his boots. And hes 40!
I think it is really helpful to think of it in a sensory way instead of just preferring - because preferring indicates that you can control your reaction, and I know that is not the case!
Thank you so much for this! My son is a neurodivergent kid in a bigger body who likes limited foods and they are mostly sugary foods (and struggled with teeth brushing) I feel guilty all the time because I feel like I shouldn't be feeing him that way but other foods are too hard right now. I've been learning so much from everything you share, but Nuareen's perspective and your discussion is so helpful and validating.
Oh I'm so, so glad to hear this was helpful! You're doing a great job.
Thank you for this nuanced approach and ways to talk to my ND 6 yo about eating- the headache thing is something he has mentioned. He is not medicated but we have been noticing he doesn’t want to eat in the morning bc he feels rushed and likes to be one of the first kids at school to give him processing time before everyone gets there. Trusting that he knows what he needs and validating how he feels/believing him seems most important to me. And I don’t want my kid to feel broken, as late diagnosed adults my husband and I never really knew why we were different as kids and I want better for my child.
I really loved this conversation, and am so grateful to you for having it!
Especially the part about the freedom from expectations and changing up mealtimes to make everyone happy.
I will say, as the parent of the 23 year old, I did feel a little judged and misunderstood--i swear, I am not in fantasizing! Yes 23 is an adult, something we discuss with her often.
Maybe it’s how I phrased things...I think the core of my quandary is how does someone who is ASD and on meds which interfere with hunger develop a more balanced intuitive eating sense.
I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and knowing my daughter has a processing delay (basically, she might need 5 minutes to wrap her head around something--all kinds of things. For instance, if she tries on shoes, or tastes a new food, she may say “that’s great/that doesn’t work” instantly, but after a few minutes change to catch up, give a more accurate report. So what I am landing on is, if it seems like an out of balance, that would really given me a stomach ache amount of food request, I will sometimes say, Are you sure? Do you want to wait five or ten minutes and then come back for more if you want it?
I apologize for making you feel defensive. It’s a drawback of email questions often that we may ascribe the wrong tone — and while I think the issue of infantilizing neurodivergent adults in general is important to bring up, we should have been clearer that we were mentioning that as a broader concern not a critique of your parenting. Glad you otherwise found the episode useful!
Oh gosh! No apologies needed.
And I so get that, about reading a question. It’s just a snippet of out of context life.
I just felt that blustery need to come back with my # notallmoms self --I couldn’t help myself!
And that issue of infantalizing really is important.
I’m just really happy to hear any discussions around parenting neurodiverse kids and yes, adults--I’m definitely still parenting. ❤️