I've been following this all steadily since I first noticed Mikey's Patreon post go out, and I'm just so grateful for her and Lindley and everyone else coming forward. I'm a fat woman who basically bought an entire bookshelf of books on HAES/Intuitive eating/etc. during this ongoing pandemic, and it's eye-opening to take a step back and notice just how many are authored (and also given recommendation/praise blurbs inside the flap!) by thin, white women. I think one of my favorite anti-diet books I noticed had only one plus-size woman who wrote a recommendation. I have been struggling with my self-esteem in relation to my weight before this and I naturally found myself gravitating towards my books by fat authors. I wish I currently had the means to purchase more of these books. But for now, the books I have by Jes Baker, Aubrey Gordon, Sofie Hagan, Roxane Gay, and Joy Arlene Renee Cox-- I turn to them when I need to read from someone who just *understands*. There is such a lived experience with fatness that thinner people don't understand that needs to continue to be reflected and honored.
YES. This is reminding me that I keep meaning to add a book list to the BT home page, and all of these folks will be on there. Lived experience is so valuable. And you are absolutely right about the discrepancy in terms of who gets published.
Also the whole HAES intuitive eating conversation reminds me a lot of nutrition spaces in general. I went to school at a place that had a very highly regarded nutrition program with a focus in public health. It was hard not to notice that it was a very thin / white space. The same has been the case for my personal experience with nutritionists. And I was on a panel speaking about public health careers and there was a leader working in food insecurity who was a black man and part of his remarks were about the need for more black and brown people leading SNAP, WIC, etc programs. He off-handedly mentioned it is a white thin woman space for leaders in that area and that's not what the clientele they are serving looks like. I found it all very interesting.
I love listening to Roxane Gay's podcast and her newsletter is really good too. I save it for when I have the time to go through all the links. She doesn't comment a lot about her bariatric surgery but I have been curious about that too, as I started the precontemplation of that recently - like maybe that is all there is left to do if I want to be around in some acceptable health level for my kids / myself. I imagine there are plenty of reasons to not to get surgery, but I am scared to research those at the moment, so it's just been an idea in the back of my head. I would love to see a Burn Toast reading list.
I have a chapter on bariatric surgery in my first book that may (or may not!) be a helpful read for you. Ragen Chastain has also done a lot of useful work on this topic, which is so, so difficult to navigate.
I wanted to just crawl under my desk as I was reading this note, Mikey’s post, the emails from ASDAH (new to me). To be honest that’s my reaction to almost every Burnt Toast email, not because they’re not worthy - exactly the opposite. All of this discussion is an acknowledgement of the magnitude and implications of fatness, race, privilege and how those are intertwined and it can be overwhelming. I say that as an obese, brown, but otherwise very privileged person who sometimes just wants to forget everything I’ve learned about this topic and would prefer to be oblivious and run back to weight watchers and work towards fitting into a size 18w again because that would be the life. Ignorance is bliss sometimes.
Side note - who else is so tired of people admitting their privilege thinking that said admission somehow erases their privilege? I know I do it too. The whole situation with Lindo felt like “I know I’m privileged and I’d like to bring in other voices to stay credible … but I still want to be too dog. Isn’t that so thoughtful of me?” Oooof
Yes. That acknowledgment of privilege and ending the conversation there... is not helpful. (Can relate to the desire to crawl away from the discomfort, but FWIW, I'm so glad you're here, engaging in this work with us. Thank you!)
YES! I've been following this closely. I just started following Mikey and ASDAH a few weeks ago when the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics dropped their guidelines for treatment of overw*ight and ob*se clients - coming down hard against using HAES and non-diet approaches. I've committed to reading The Body is Not an Apology and work to, as @nicolahaggett said to me, "help folks gently pull [the thread]...to widen the lens beyond Diet Culture to all forms of body oppression".
Yikes. Thank you for this. This is a great reminder to seek out, follow, and support fat BIPOC creators and dietitians instead of exploitative thin white people who profit off their labor!
Several folks have mentioned that. I don't think this was ever a deliberate manipulation - I've read several pieces by them that acknowledge their thin privilege. But I haven't looked back at the original HAES book in awhile to see if they did so in there. And I do think it's a problem that they are too often, in the role of primary spokesperson for the movement.
I appreciate your thoughts and can relate to all of them. As a mid-fat white woman with lots of privilege I am working through how to structure a new organization that will be focused on working to add weight/height to anti-discrimination laws in the states (beyond Mass, NY and Michigan) and federally. Doing this kind of policy change work in a capitalistic society requires lots of money and therefore lots of fundraising in a society that sees no benefit in dignity for fat folx. I worry about where that will have to come from as there are varying degrees of authenticity in a commitment to fat liberation in corporate and grant making organizations. The Lindo situation was a long time coming and its a punctuation point in my reflection about my positionally in this community and how to move forward work that will be one (legal) tool to hold accountable those who harm fat people. I am focusing on being in relationships and liberatory practices with full openness to accountability. Damned supremacy—the unlearning comes in waves which is frustrating.
Thank you so much for sharing Chevese. This is such important and difficult work! Would love to learn more about it as you're proceeding and be helpful in any way I can. (as another privileged white lady, sigh)
Thank you for your excellent writing! How about offering an honorarium to your interview subjects that they can accept or donate to a cause of their choosing. Academics have been doing this for eons.
That's a wonderful idea. There is a longstanding code of ethics in journalism that we don't pay sources. This makes sense when you're doing investigative reporting, or trying to get people to talk about subjects that they are reluctant to make public -- paying clouds their motivations, and creates opportunities for exploitation. But I've been considering all the ways that a podcast interview feel different from that; I'm asking folks to perform labor, share knowledge, etc. I need to do some more research and thinking on this, but I really appreciate this suggestion.
Thank you for your thoughtful article. One point that stood out for me, as a librarian, is the balance between "credible experts"/identifying sources and an individual's need for confidentiality/anonymity for their own safety. Librarians often advocate for "information literacy" (which can sound condescending!) and teach our patrons to evaluate information sources for authenticity: Who made these assertions? Are they named and credentialed to show they are credible and accountable for their views? I need to consider how to talk about people who use pseudonyms to preserve their safety (for example, if they are trans but not out in real life because it could jeopardize their jobs/relationships) in the context of authenticity.
Yes! It's in my training too, and I think there is value in, making sure to disclose information sources, so you can understand their experience, level of expertise, biases, etc. But I do think there's a different conversation that needs to happen around marginalized folks sharing personal/vulnerable stories. And we don't quite have it worked out.
I've been following this all steadily since I first noticed Mikey's Patreon post go out, and I'm just so grateful for her and Lindley and everyone else coming forward. I'm a fat woman who basically bought an entire bookshelf of books on HAES/Intuitive eating/etc. during this ongoing pandemic, and it's eye-opening to take a step back and notice just how many are authored (and also given recommendation/praise blurbs inside the flap!) by thin, white women. I think one of my favorite anti-diet books I noticed had only one plus-size woman who wrote a recommendation. I have been struggling with my self-esteem in relation to my weight before this and I naturally found myself gravitating towards my books by fat authors. I wish I currently had the means to purchase more of these books. But for now, the books I have by Jes Baker, Aubrey Gordon, Sofie Hagan, Roxane Gay, and Joy Arlene Renee Cox-- I turn to them when I need to read from someone who just *understands*. There is such a lived experience with fatness that thinner people don't understand that needs to continue to be reflected and honored.
YES. This is reminding me that I keep meaning to add a book list to the BT home page, and all of these folks will be on there. Lived experience is so valuable. And you are absolutely right about the discrepancy in terms of who gets published.
Please add the book list! I’m very behind in my reading on this and suggestions for where to dive in are welcomed.
Also the whole HAES intuitive eating conversation reminds me a lot of nutrition spaces in general. I went to school at a place that had a very highly regarded nutrition program with a focus in public health. It was hard not to notice that it was a very thin / white space. The same has been the case for my personal experience with nutritionists. And I was on a panel speaking about public health careers and there was a leader working in food insecurity who was a black man and part of his remarks were about the need for more black and brown people leading SNAP, WIC, etc programs. He off-handedly mentioned it is a white thin woman space for leaders in that area and that's not what the clientele they are serving looks like. I found it all very interesting.
Yes, nutrition and public health across the board are incredibly and problematically white and thin!
I love listening to Roxane Gay's podcast and her newsletter is really good too. I save it for when I have the time to go through all the links. She doesn't comment a lot about her bariatric surgery but I have been curious about that too, as I started the precontemplation of that recently - like maybe that is all there is left to do if I want to be around in some acceptable health level for my kids / myself. I imagine there are plenty of reasons to not to get surgery, but I am scared to research those at the moment, so it's just been an idea in the back of my head. I would love to see a Burn Toast reading list.
I have a chapter on bariatric surgery in my first book that may (or may not!) be a helpful read for you. Ragen Chastain has also done a lot of useful work on this topic, which is so, so difficult to navigate.
I wanted to just crawl under my desk as I was reading this note, Mikey’s post, the emails from ASDAH (new to me). To be honest that’s my reaction to almost every Burnt Toast email, not because they’re not worthy - exactly the opposite. All of this discussion is an acknowledgement of the magnitude and implications of fatness, race, privilege and how those are intertwined and it can be overwhelming. I say that as an obese, brown, but otherwise very privileged person who sometimes just wants to forget everything I’ve learned about this topic and would prefer to be oblivious and run back to weight watchers and work towards fitting into a size 18w again because that would be the life. Ignorance is bliss sometimes.
Side note - who else is so tired of people admitting their privilege thinking that said admission somehow erases their privilege? I know I do it too. The whole situation with Lindo felt like “I know I’m privileged and I’d like to bring in other voices to stay credible … but I still want to be too dog. Isn’t that so thoughtful of me?” Oooof
Yes. That acknowledgment of privilege and ending the conversation there... is not helpful. (Can relate to the desire to crawl away from the discomfort, but FWIW, I'm so glad you're here, engaging in this work with us. Thank you!)
YES! I've been following this closely. I just started following Mikey and ASDAH a few weeks ago when the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics dropped their guidelines for treatment of overw*ight and ob*se clients - coming down hard against using HAES and non-diet approaches. I've committed to reading The Body is Not an Apology and work to, as @nicolahaggett said to me, "help folks gently pull [the thread]...to widen the lens beyond Diet Culture to all forms of body oppression".
Such a helpful framing. And yes, The Body Is Not An Apology is a spectacular book.
Yikes. Thank you for this. This is a great reminder to seek out, follow, and support fat BIPOC creators and dietitians instead of exploitative thin white people who profit off their labor!
100 percent.
I had no idea Lindo wasn't fat.
Several folks have mentioned that. I don't think this was ever a deliberate manipulation - I've read several pieces by them that acknowledge their thin privilege. But I haven't looked back at the original HAES book in awhile to see if they did so in there. And I do think it's a problem that they are too often, in the role of primary spokesperson for the movement.
I appreciate your thoughts and can relate to all of them. As a mid-fat white woman with lots of privilege I am working through how to structure a new organization that will be focused on working to add weight/height to anti-discrimination laws in the states (beyond Mass, NY and Michigan) and federally. Doing this kind of policy change work in a capitalistic society requires lots of money and therefore lots of fundraising in a society that sees no benefit in dignity for fat folx. I worry about where that will have to come from as there are varying degrees of authenticity in a commitment to fat liberation in corporate and grant making organizations. The Lindo situation was a long time coming and its a punctuation point in my reflection about my positionally in this community and how to move forward work that will be one (legal) tool to hold accountable those who harm fat people. I am focusing on being in relationships and liberatory practices with full openness to accountability. Damned supremacy—the unlearning comes in waves which is frustrating.
Thank you so much for sharing Chevese. This is such important and difficult work! Would love to learn more about it as you're proceeding and be helpful in any way I can. (as another privileged white lady, sigh)
Thank you for your excellent writing! How about offering an honorarium to your interview subjects that they can accept or donate to a cause of their choosing. Academics have been doing this for eons.
That's a wonderful idea. There is a longstanding code of ethics in journalism that we don't pay sources. This makes sense when you're doing investigative reporting, or trying to get people to talk about subjects that they are reluctant to make public -- paying clouds their motivations, and creates opportunities for exploitation. But I've been considering all the ways that a podcast interview feel different from that; I'm asking folks to perform labor, share knowledge, etc. I need to do some more research and thinking on this, but I really appreciate this suggestion.
Thank you for your thoughtful article. One point that stood out for me, as a librarian, is the balance between "credible experts"/identifying sources and an individual's need for confidentiality/anonymity for their own safety. Librarians often advocate for "information literacy" (which can sound condescending!) and teach our patrons to evaluate information sources for authenticity: Who made these assertions? Are they named and credentialed to show they are credible and accountable for their views? I need to consider how to talk about people who use pseudonyms to preserve their safety (for example, if they are trans but not out in real life because it could jeopardize their jobs/relationships) in the context of authenticity.
Yes! It's in my training too, and I think there is value in, making sure to disclose information sources, so you can understand their experience, level of expertise, biases, etc. But I do think there's a different conversation that needs to happen around marginalized folks sharing personal/vulnerable stories. And we don't quite have it worked out.