Am only catching up now but I LOVED this, especially Laura's last point on the white elite food guy effect -- what can we do about this?! Also yay to ice cream. If it were not for gelato, I don't know what most Italian families would do, it literally is what gets us through the hot hot hot Italian summers.
She seems to believe that the evidence about UPF is compelling and completely dismisses the nutrition argument. This is hardly surprising as she’s a firm believer in the o*****y epidemic. What do you think about the evidence she provides about UPFs causing “overeating”? How do we push against the narrative against UPFs without being perceived as supporting a very problematic food industry?
So I discussed the Kevin Hall study (in part 2 I think) where the claim is that UPFs 'cause overeating' - that study showed that people rated UPFs and 'unprocessed' foods as similarly palatable (i.e. not the hyper-palatable irresistible food we are told it is). It's true that the people on the UPF diet ate more in terms of energy *to begin with*, but by the end of the two week study period there was a 'weaning' effect meaning that people were beginning to readjust their energy intake towards energy balance. Because the study only went for two weeks we don't know what would happen more long term. It's also not a useful experiment from the perspective that even people eating the MOST UPF aren't eating 100% UPFs. I talk about this more in part 2 of my series too and in essence, the effects found in KH's study can all be explained by more conventional nutrition metrics (fibre content, energy density etc).
The part that seems to get lost in this conversation, and where I think Nestle (et al.,) are contributing to this issue is perpetuating binaries - good food/bad food, evil food industry/ virtuous farmers' markets etc... they are so hyper focussed on food/industry that they aren't interrogating deeper systemic issues. Yes we have lost touch with traditional food ways and cultural practices that support communal eating/cooking/caring for one another. But that is bc of capitalism, colonialism, and white supremacy, not, as VSS would say, the Flaming Hot Cheetos.
For me so much of this conversation is getting comfortable with the messiness of this issue. There may be detrimental health effects to eating some UPFs AND UPFs might be a lifeline for folks who are trying their best to survive under late-stage capitalism. The food industry engages in some really shady practices AND it makes food convenient, accessible, and affordable.
Yes, thank you so much for responding! She did it again today. Nuanced conversations are so hard to have, particularly when so many very well-known folks seem to have already made up their minds about UPF, and many other things. I really appreciate your work in getting the word out there. I particularly enjoyed your conversation with The Fat Doctor on your podcast.
More really, really good stuff! I so appreciate both of you, and hope Laura is on again soon!!! :D
Am only catching up now but I LOVED this, especially Laura's last point on the white elite food guy effect -- what can we do about this?! Also yay to ice cream. If it were not for gelato, I don't know what most Italian families would do, it literally is what gets us through the hot hot hot Italian summers.
Marion Nestle just posted this to her blog https://www.foodpolitics.com/2023/07/industry-influenced-study-of-the-week-eat-ultra-processed-foods/
She seems to believe that the evidence about UPF is compelling and completely dismisses the nutrition argument. This is hardly surprising as she’s a firm believer in the o*****y epidemic. What do you think about the evidence she provides about UPFs causing “overeating”? How do we push against the narrative against UPFs without being perceived as supporting a very problematic food industry?
So I discussed the Kevin Hall study (in part 2 I think) where the claim is that UPFs 'cause overeating' - that study showed that people rated UPFs and 'unprocessed' foods as similarly palatable (i.e. not the hyper-palatable irresistible food we are told it is). It's true that the people on the UPF diet ate more in terms of energy *to begin with*, but by the end of the two week study period there was a 'weaning' effect meaning that people were beginning to readjust their energy intake towards energy balance. Because the study only went for two weeks we don't know what would happen more long term. It's also not a useful experiment from the perspective that even people eating the MOST UPF aren't eating 100% UPFs. I talk about this more in part 2 of my series too and in essence, the effects found in KH's study can all be explained by more conventional nutrition metrics (fibre content, energy density etc).
The part that seems to get lost in this conversation, and where I think Nestle (et al.,) are contributing to this issue is perpetuating binaries - good food/bad food, evil food industry/ virtuous farmers' markets etc... they are so hyper focussed on food/industry that they aren't interrogating deeper systemic issues. Yes we have lost touch with traditional food ways and cultural practices that support communal eating/cooking/caring for one another. But that is bc of capitalism, colonialism, and white supremacy, not, as VSS would say, the Flaming Hot Cheetos.
For me so much of this conversation is getting comfortable with the messiness of this issue. There may be detrimental health effects to eating some UPFs AND UPFs might be a lifeline for folks who are trying their best to survive under late-stage capitalism. The food industry engages in some really shady practices AND it makes food convenient, accessible, and affordable.
Yes, thank you so much for responding! She did it again today. Nuanced conversations are so hard to have, particularly when so many very well-known folks seem to have already made up their minds about UPF, and many other things. I really appreciate your work in getting the word out there. I particularly enjoyed your conversation with The Fat Doctor on your podcast.
Thanks Laurel, I appreciate your thoughtful questions!