"one of the interesting things about feminism is it’s the only political movement that’s reputed to come in waves. And that wave metaphor really fills me with suspicion because the idea is like, inbuilt obsolescence. And then, a whole new branch of thought that just replaces the old thinking. Why do we think that about feminism and literally no other political movement as that model of undertow taking out one wave and a new wave crashes, and then it’s over?"
I am going to be sitting with this for a long time. Thank you so much!
Thank you so much for articulating and naming the idea that the only opinion about a body that matters is the opinion that belongs to that body. I have just been thinking about that in the context of a question that I feel comes up regularly within the topic of parenting, namely what do we do when a kid is going through that phase of blurting out every thought in their head to include making comments about strangers’ appearances? Of course it’s always a good idea to start from the place of we shouldn’t be commenting on other people’s bodies. But I think there is also this concern sometimes that if we leave it at that, the kid may still come away with the impression that whatever thing they’ve identified in their comment is something wrong or shameful about the body that we shouldn’t draw attention to. I love that the concept you discuss here clarifies and reframes what we are trying to teach kids about bodies and opinions about bodies.
I’m going to reflect more on “my body is for me.” My kids say “it’s my own body and I get to decide,” which I know I’ve taught them but it’s somehow harder to believe or practiced day to day for myself. I have been divesting from diet culture and beauty culture and embracing my own comfort for some time but the simplicity of the mantra “my body is for me” feels groundbreaking, soothing and radical all at the same time.
(I do miss when my kids said “It’s MINE own body and I get it decide” but they are all older now so don’t sub mine for my anymore)
"When I came to the early 2000s fatosphere, it was this wild moment of wait, what if there’s nothing wrong with fatness? What if fat bodies are awesome and valuable and just as good and don’t need to change to comply with these values that are so noxious and oppressive? That was a lesson that I didn’t have any trouble digesting as a political message. It took me a long time to get there in my personal practices."
OOF yes relatable. Yes of course, it's okay to be fat ... for other people, but I, I need to not be fat. There's a remarkable disconnect between when I found the fatosphere and when I stopped trying to make MY body not fat / less fat.
Great conversation and I'm eagerly awaiting the book from my library hold list!
(Also one of these days I need to try some Tim Tams!)
Really thought provoking discussion! I would love to hear more conversations with both of you. The male gaze sneaking in has been coming up a lot lately. This internalized nasty judgmental jerk..thank you for talking about this.
Temperature contrast in foods recommendation! Vanilla ice cream and a cold Coke. NOT as a Coke Float - a bite of ice cream, then a sip of Coke. Your mouth is so cold from the ice cream that the Coke feels almost warm, and extra fizzy somehow. (This was my favorite thing as a little kid in Florida. I feel like eating this on a hot, humid summer day is the best thing ever.)
Great conversation, and I can't wait to start reading the book. I really appreciated hearing Dr. Manne share so vulnerably about her own evolution (both philosophical/political and personal/internal) on these topics.
And YES to the temperature differential piece of food pleasure!!! One of our go-to family dinner recipes is a homemade "crunchwrap" (recipe from Delish), and the best part is the cool sour cream/lettuce/tomato with the warm meat/cheese/tortilla. I also love adding a warm grain to an otherwise cold salad. Mmmmmm.
For those of you in the Washington, DC area, Kate Manne discussion and reading at Politics and Prose Bookstore,5015 Connecticut Ave NW, Washington, DC.Saturday, January 27, 2024 - 3:00pm. Perhaps I will see you there?
Thank you SO much for having me on! Oh my goodness, what a thrill--and I absolutely loved our conversation. Sending so much gratitude for your work ❤️
"one of the interesting things about feminism is it’s the only political movement that’s reputed to come in waves. And that wave metaphor really fills me with suspicion because the idea is like, inbuilt obsolescence. And then, a whole new branch of thought that just replaces the old thinking. Why do we think that about feminism and literally no other political movement as that model of undertow taking out one wave and a new wave crashes, and then it’s over?"
I am going to be sitting with this for a long time. Thank you so much!
Thank you so much for articulating and naming the idea that the only opinion about a body that matters is the opinion that belongs to that body. I have just been thinking about that in the context of a question that I feel comes up regularly within the topic of parenting, namely what do we do when a kid is going through that phase of blurting out every thought in their head to include making comments about strangers’ appearances? Of course it’s always a good idea to start from the place of we shouldn’t be commenting on other people’s bodies. But I think there is also this concern sometimes that if we leave it at that, the kid may still come away with the impression that whatever thing they’ve identified in their comment is something wrong or shameful about the body that we shouldn’t draw attention to. I love that the concept you discuss here clarifies and reframes what we are trying to teach kids about bodies and opinions about bodies.
I’m going to reflect more on “my body is for me.” My kids say “it’s my own body and I get to decide,” which I know I’ve taught them but it’s somehow harder to believe or practiced day to day for myself. I have been divesting from diet culture and beauty culture and embracing my own comfort for some time but the simplicity of the mantra “my body is for me” feels groundbreaking, soothing and radical all at the same time.
(I do miss when my kids said “It’s MINE own body and I get it decide” but they are all older now so don’t sub mine for my anymore)
Omg you two just made my day! One, I am ordering Tim tams, two, my mind was blown by this conversation...thank thank thank you!!!
"When I came to the early 2000s fatosphere, it was this wild moment of wait, what if there’s nothing wrong with fatness? What if fat bodies are awesome and valuable and just as good and don’t need to change to comply with these values that are so noxious and oppressive? That was a lesson that I didn’t have any trouble digesting as a political message. It took me a long time to get there in my personal practices."
OOF yes relatable. Yes of course, it's okay to be fat ... for other people, but I, I need to not be fat. There's a remarkable disconnect between when I found the fatosphere and when I stopped trying to make MY body not fat / less fat.
Great conversation and I'm eagerly awaiting the book from my library hold list!
(Also one of these days I need to try some Tim Tams!)
Really thought provoking discussion! I would love to hear more conversations with both of you. The male gaze sneaking in has been coming up a lot lately. This internalized nasty judgmental jerk..thank you for talking about this.
Temperature contrast in foods recommendation! Vanilla ice cream and a cold Coke. NOT as a Coke Float - a bite of ice cream, then a sip of Coke. Your mouth is so cold from the ice cream that the Coke feels almost warm, and extra fizzy somehow. (This was my favorite thing as a little kid in Florida. I feel like eating this on a hot, humid summer day is the best thing ever.)
This was such an amazing conversation! Kate, I can not wait to read the book.
Great conversation, and I can't wait to start reading the book. I really appreciated hearing Dr. Manne share so vulnerably about her own evolution (both philosophical/political and personal/internal) on these topics.
And YES to the temperature differential piece of food pleasure!!! One of our go-to family dinner recipes is a homemade "crunchwrap" (recipe from Delish), and the best part is the cool sour cream/lettuce/tomato with the warm meat/cheese/tortilla. I also love adding a warm grain to an otherwise cold salad. Mmmmmm.
Just started my copy. Thank you for this work.
Love love love this interview. So inspired the the amazing work you two are both doing. You're my heroes!!
For those of you in the Washington, DC area, Kate Manne discussion and reading at Politics and Prose Bookstore,5015 Connecticut Ave NW, Washington, DC.Saturday, January 27, 2024 - 3:00pm. Perhaps I will see you there?
Thank you, I’m saving so many gems from this conversation!
And as a side note, I always have and always will be a sweat Betty, no matter the exertion level or temperature increase.
One of your best interviews yet! Bought the book. Thank you!
Tim Tans for life!!!! 🙌
Going to dive into Good Girls soon. So many recs for it lately.