Aug 16Liked by Laura Thomas, PhD, RNutr, Virginia Sole-Smith
Guys, this was amazing. Thank you so much for doing this episode, both of you. This is SUCH an important discussion! I was nodding along the whole way but especially at Laura's quote, "there’s exploitation and domination at every single level of the food system" -- this is huge. In Italy, the land of cheap, delicious tomatoes, strawberries and other wonderful produce, you can bet that often it is being picked by today's equivalent of slave labour (undocumented refugees and immigrants). This news rarely gets picked up by media outside of Italy but a recent incident of the totally avoidable, excruciating death of an undocumented strawberry picker (his arm was ripped off in some machinery and the owner refused to take him to the hospital, scared of getting in trouble from his own slave labour practices and the poor man died) near Rome brought it out into the light again. The businesses, but also the government definitely needs to be held accountable and step in to give all workers rights and protection (a lot to say about the government's attitude towards refugees and immigrants) but this is the thing, isn't all this fear mongering over ultra processed foods simply a huge distraction from all the other important things that need to be tackled more urgently by the government?! Shouldn't exploitation of workers in the food system and the entire system around why undocumented refugees and immigrants have no choice but to put up with this kind of awful work in the first place be dealt with as a bigger issue rather than making families feel guilty about whether they are using "ultra processed" foods or not?
Aug 15Liked by Laura Thomas, PhD, RNutr, Virginia Sole-Smith
Thank you. This was clarifying. I especially love the teasing out of ethical consumption and human rights violations (and Amy's, which saved my life at one point. The burritos are fab). While I must mostly stick to categories 1 & 2 because I must dramatically limit sodium, I'm relieved to know that we're not killing my godsons when they demand French fries or bust. Great conversation. I already have a short list of people to share it with.
The ultra processed food thing liberated white flour and rice for me. Wait, all of a sudden they are in the "good" category? Looks like this whole categorizing thing is full of it.
We have free breakfast and lunch in our district now for majority of the public schools and I’m still seeing complaints about the kids eating processed foods- I am also feeding my kids cereal at home but then people are acting shocked that they get Lucky Charms at school breakfast. I am very happy they are providing that access without having to fill out any forms! (But my kids eat too slowly for this to be a great option for us for breakfast- they get school lunch on a near daily basis unless I bring food for their birthday or pack for field trip).
I don't eat burgers or fries or chips. I don't like them. I think fast food joints are stinky, so I never go. But man oh man do I delight in the "oh shit what do I do now?" Look doctors get when they tell me to stop doing all those things and I tell them that's not a problem.
It's true that we do not know the long (or short) consequences of eating UPFs, but one thing that we do know is that some of these foods were created (by scientists) to make them more addictive.
Processing tomatoes and veggies for a jarred sauce is not the same as re-engineering a chip over and over to make it's texture/smell/composition irresistible to your brain.
While I agree we don't need more food categories, this distinction seems left out of the discussion.
The Amy's situation reinforces why everyone needs a union and how much employment would change if we had universal healthcare.
It strains your argument though to call the burritos "not inexpensive". At Costco the 8 pack is around $14 and they're organic.
Definitely listen to part 2 of this conversation — Laura breaks down a lot of the myths about whether these foods are actually addictive. It’s much more nuanced than the media portrayal.
And great to know those burritos are a deal at Costco but not everyone lives near one! (I’d be driving an hour each way, which negates the savings. At my local Walmart, they are $3.50 apiece.)
And don't forget that now we have to add UPFs to our climate guilt! I was really sad to see this author cite your work as important to her and then launch into all of the pseudo-science and only a brief "btw" given to the important issues of cost, time, etc. that you treat with care here.
Guys, this was amazing. Thank you so much for doing this episode, both of you. This is SUCH an important discussion! I was nodding along the whole way but especially at Laura's quote, "there’s exploitation and domination at every single level of the food system" -- this is huge. In Italy, the land of cheap, delicious tomatoes, strawberries and other wonderful produce, you can bet that often it is being picked by today's equivalent of slave labour (undocumented refugees and immigrants). This news rarely gets picked up by media outside of Italy but a recent incident of the totally avoidable, excruciating death of an undocumented strawberry picker (his arm was ripped off in some machinery and the owner refused to take him to the hospital, scared of getting in trouble from his own slave labour practices and the poor man died) near Rome brought it out into the light again. The businesses, but also the government definitely needs to be held accountable and step in to give all workers rights and protection (a lot to say about the government's attitude towards refugees and immigrants) but this is the thing, isn't all this fear mongering over ultra processed foods simply a huge distraction from all the other important things that need to be tackled more urgently by the government?! Shouldn't exploitation of workers in the food system and the entire system around why undocumented refugees and immigrants have no choice but to put up with this kind of awful work in the first place be dealt with as a bigger issue rather than making families feel guilty about whether they are using "ultra processed" foods or not?
Thank you. This was clarifying. I especially love the teasing out of ethical consumption and human rights violations (and Amy's, which saved my life at one point. The burritos are fab). While I must mostly stick to categories 1 & 2 because I must dramatically limit sodium, I'm relieved to know that we're not killing my godsons when they demand French fries or bust. Great conversation. I already have a short list of people to share it with.
The ultra processed food thing liberated white flour and rice for me. Wait, all of a sudden they are in the "good" category? Looks like this whole categorizing thing is full of it.
We have free breakfast and lunch in our district now for majority of the public schools and I’m still seeing complaints about the kids eating processed foods- I am also feeding my kids cereal at home but then people are acting shocked that they get Lucky Charms at school breakfast. I am very happy they are providing that access without having to fill out any forms! (But my kids eat too slowly for this to be a great option for us for breakfast- they get school lunch on a near daily basis unless I bring food for their birthday or pack for field trip).
Can’t wait to listen!
Really enjoyed this talk between the two of you. Thank you.
I'm moderately fat and don't eat a lot of junk food, and I don't even know if much is known about what people really eat.
I don't eat burgers or fries or chips. I don't like them. I think fast food joints are stinky, so I never go. But man oh man do I delight in the "oh shit what do I do now?" Look doctors get when they tell me to stop doing all those things and I tell them that's not a problem.
I agree. Stinky.
It's true that we do not know the long (or short) consequences of eating UPFs, but one thing that we do know is that some of these foods were created (by scientists) to make them more addictive.
Processing tomatoes and veggies for a jarred sauce is not the same as re-engineering a chip over and over to make it's texture/smell/composition irresistible to your brain.
While I agree we don't need more food categories, this distinction seems left out of the discussion.
The Amy's situation reinforces why everyone needs a union and how much employment would change if we had universal healthcare.
It strains your argument though to call the burritos "not inexpensive". At Costco the 8 pack is around $14 and they're organic.
Definitely listen to part 2 of this conversation — Laura breaks down a lot of the myths about whether these foods are actually addictive. It’s much more nuanced than the media portrayal.
And great to know those burritos are a deal at Costco but not everyone lives near one! (I’d be driving an hour each way, which negates the savings. At my local Walmart, they are $3.50 apiece.)
And don't forget that now we have to add UPFs to our climate guilt! I was really sad to see this author cite your work as important to her and then launch into all of the pseudo-science and only a brief "btw" given to the important issues of cost, time, etc. that you treat with care here.
https://thegoldenhour.substack.com/p/our-familys-two-week-experiment-cutting