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Jul 19, 2022Liked by Virginia Sole-Smith

Commenting belatedly to say this book wrecked me! I work in child welfare policy and try to do advocate around rules that better support families so the idea of this system and how counter it is to all the research about what’s good for kids and families just destroyed me (especially I think because of how bleak everything currently is it seems like I could see some tech company proposing these dolls??) but very glad for the recommendation from this book club and to have read it. I can’t stop thinking about so many things from it and have recommended it friends (with trigger warnings…)

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Chiming in very belatedly, but just wanted to say that I STRUGGLED through this book and was glad I finished it in the end!! It seems like I’m in the minority of people who was like, she left her baby alone for a couple hours, is that really so bad?? But, I’m not a mom and when I was describing the plot to a friend they literally gasped in horror. Also just tiny side note that I loved how not fatphobic this book was— that we’re supposed to be horrified that the stepmother puts Harriet on a diet. So many books I’ve been reading lately just have that constant low level fatphobia.

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Ooooh i missed this today. .Would have definitely attended...

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I’m on the west coast and missed the initial discussion but just read through all the comments while inhaling my lunch (cauliflower fried rice w/shrimp). I loved this book until the very end and was completely let down. I put the book down and announced to whoever would listen in my house (no one) that I could NOT believe after all that - that whole horrible year - that she would go down like this. I mean she obviously knew she would get caught because she even wondered whether it would be hours or maybe days. So maybe it was worth it because she got a few more hours with Harriet.. before she goes to prison… and maybe she’ll be out by the time Harriet is 18?! Ugh. I can’t. 😩

I did really love this book though. I have one child and could just feel my emotions going through the ringer throughout the whole story. I do not condone her actions on her “bad day” but I think most parents (esp mothers) can relate to that feeling of just escaping for a few minutes. It’s worth noting that she was sleep deprived, possibly fighting depression and still navigating a divorce due to her partner cheating on her and leaving her for that other woman. It makes my stomach hurt just to type that sentence out.

For what it’s worth, I was glad she did not end up with Tucker. He was a tool.

Excellent pick.

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Reading all y'all's insight has made me appreciate the book so much more. #bookclub4thewin

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This book was amazing and devastating. The ending killed me. I really recommend “The Violin Conspiracy” by Brendan Slocumb.

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I am not a mother but I was excited to read this book from the first time I learned about it. I have many friends who are parents and want to stand in solidarity with them and with all mothers. This book shocked me, and then I was shocked again after going down a rabbit hole of related news articles and blog post-type articles - shocked but sadly not surprised at how much institutions and individuals in this country want to control, punish, and judge mothers (and especially certain types of mothers). I have a cousin who allowed her boyfriend to severely abuse her children, and it took years of family members making complaints and trying to go through the court system for my cousin to finally lose custody. Years after her friend, who is a police officer, first reported the abuse when he saw bruises on her daughter. The abuse continued during all those years. But I have to remind myself that, while my cousin doesn't have a lot of money, she is a blonde, thin, white woman and as such probably received a lot of privileges and positive bias that made it take so long for her to lose custody. It makes me so sick - the over-punishment and intense scrutiny of some mothers, as well as the systems that allow parents who are truly abusive to slip through the cracks and avoid punishment.

I can't stop thinking about the mother who was in the school because she allowed her nine or ten year old daughter (I think that's the right age?) to walk a few blocks home from the library alone. Is that actually something that would be punished? Sadly it wouldn't surprise me if it would.

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One thing I found really interesting that was peppered through the book was that Frida was previously on antidepressants and went off them because of various pressures- eg. her husband & his new girlfriend's disapproval, her parents' disapproval, etc. Frida's "very bad day" comes from several accumulated pressures, including the fact that she's probably depressed.

In this book, mothers are expected to have perfect behaviour AND perfect emotions. Without any support. Because a "good mother" shouldn't need support.

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Oh goodness, this book. I happened to read it right after reading Orwell’s 1984, and I think that made it extra chilling because it felt so much closer to something that could actually happen. It’s also amplified by watching my brother, who became a single parent of four after his partner died last year, live in terror that his children will be taken away from him because he has complications from diabetes. I agree that Frida‘s “lapse in judgement” was severe enough to cause the reader to struggle with judging her, but some of the other mothers’ transgressions hit so close to what actually happens to parents, especially mothers, in our ableist society.

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Ugh. Honestly, when I finished this book I was slightly angry with you for choosing this. It was so, so hard to read. (I was on a six hour flight and had to take a break to watch a shitty movie. Fittingly, “Bad Moms”). I think it was important to the story/commentary was that the teachers did not have children. I also wondered if the version of motherhood they are promoting is actually the best. It seems that it’s not promoting children developing into their own whole, separate people. My goal is to raise a productive member of society/not an asshole. This feels like those goals would not be met.

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Have to hop off a little early to go pick a kid up from camp. Feel free to continue discussing amongst yourselves! I'll catch back up later tonight. And thanks so much to everyone for this thoroughly enjoyable and cathartic book chat! Can't wait to do it again! (Ideas for next month?)

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I am so excited to discuss this with people because no one in my life will touch this book with a ten foot pole! When I described it to my friends and spouse, they all asked me why in the hell I was torturing myself with this.

I read it as I found out that this next school year we are again waitlisted for after school care and have very little options. I keep thinking parenting will get easier as my kids get older and I am continuously just gobsmacked by the utter lack of fucks given.

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I was so emotionally wrecked by this book. I had such a hard time reading it, especially because the overall point I wanted to take away from it (that our society is unduly harsh on mothers and holds them to impossible standards) did not jibe with the actual offense committed by the protagonist. I have had some extremely dark moments in motherhood but I don't think I would ever just walk out the door, drive away, and leave my baby alone for hours - and more relevant, I think someone who does this, DOES need some sort of intervention.

I DO NOT believe that that intervention needs to be even the temporary removal of children, though. The punitive weaponization of motherhood - something to be taken away for the slightest infraction - is the point, and it is a frighteningly real point. And I understand the courage involved in having your main character commit a fairly unsympathetic offense - because the real point is, we should not need to be perfect (even in our flawed moments - the stereotypical "clumsy" female protagonist, never so flawed as to actually be worthy of judgment) to inherently deserve support and compassion and acknowledgment of the fact that we are human beings at all. And the reality is, our society (now more than ever) affords no support or compassion for mothers, however far they fall short of the unattainable goal of perfection.

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Something else I super appreciated about this book, though it was uncomfortable to read: I 100% judged her in the beginning for leaving for Harriet for two hours. I was like, what are you doing? The baby is alone in the house!! I didn't think she should lose custody but I did think she really fucked up. And then the book helped me face up to all the bias I was bringing to that scene. And why don't we let mothers fuck up, even a little, when all of parenting is fucking up in little bits every day. It helped me realize my own tendency to judge other parents and work on curbing that impulse, especially when it intersects with race and class.

So I appreciate that Chan made the initial "offense" just bad enough that we (or at least I) would have to go through this process of judging and unlearning.

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Currently 34 weeks pregnant and I loved this book. It made me so angry and I cried at multiple points, but it was SO good. I read some of the more critical goodreads reviews about the pace being slow or it paling in comparison to other similar "dystopian" novels, but I felt like Chan built this incredible complexity into the text that I loved. Like yes, I can see how the middle parts might have felt redundant, but to me they cement the brainwashing, the psychological manipulation. When Frida first gets to the school, she can only mouth the words, "I am a bad mother, but I'm learning to be good." As she progresses through the school, you see the way that she actually internalizes their messaging. It goes from performative to something she actually believes about herself. You need the maybe tedious middle parts to effectively build this change. I don't know, I could talk about this book for days. I liked the ambiguous ending. I also liked that the book started with her neglecting her daughter, blind to any potential consequences, and ends with her risking everything for her daughter, fully aware of what her actions could bring about.

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Oh my god, this book! It's definitely one that I needed to talk about with someone afterwards because the ending was so freaking harrowing and horrible. There were so many times throughout when I thought, as the mother of a daughter about Harriet's age, that maybe I shouldn't be reading this, that it hits too close to home, but I'm so glad I stuck it out.

I 100% was expecting some sort of robot revolt, and in all the many different tradegies of this book, I feel especially sorrowful for the robots. Knowing myself, I would have fully imprinted on that fake baby and wouldn't have been able to leave her behind, and when I think about their memories being wiped and the pain they had to experience for the mothers' lessons, my heart breaks.

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Jul 13, 2022Liked by Virginia Sole-Smith

I felt like there were so many comparisons to be made to the way we have to exist as mothers in today's culture. Like the modeling at the school really mirrored the aggressively perfect Instagram moms. Especially those who are like the models for gentle and/or attachment parenting. It was very reflective of language we hear from mom influencers. Maybe I won't get packed up and sent to a school when I scream at my kid, but if someone catches me doing it on IG, I'm sure to have an army of perfect influencer gentle moms calling me out.

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I wanted to recommend to friends so we could discuss but by the end i was very disturbed. I would like to know why others classify as a "love" while i found it rather torturous to read as a mother. the dolls were so creepy and awful to read about!

The ending was so depressing. But if there is some redeeming quality to this book (for me) it was that it made the reader reconsider assumptions about what is good parenting vs what is abusive when seen from other perspectives (ie the tropes we accept at face value about poor, single moms, etc).

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I read this book back in March and cannot get it out of my brain. I'm a social worker (though could never work in family services) and this felt way too prescient.

The perfectionism that we expect of mothers and the much lesser expectations of and control over fathers was a great magnifier of our world today.

I thought the ending also threaded that needle really well and, I too, was screaming the whole time.

I can totally understand how this book might not be everyone's jam. I've recommended it to so many people and no one has read it, so I appreciate this opportunity to dig into it.

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THIS BOOK completely wrecked me. I tore through it because I needed what I assumed would be redemption at the end. Why, whyyy did I assume that?? I share your hesitation to recommend it, especially to mothers, even though I think it is a brilliant piece of literature. It's so brutal. And aren't moms going through enough these days?

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I don't generally get emotional when I read, even really heavy stuff, but I full on sobbed at the scene near the end when she said goodbye to her daughter. Like even now, two weeks later, typing this out I'm kind of tearing up.

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I loved this book and I hated this book. It was impossibly hard to read - and I'm not a mother! I did think there was quite a bit of repetitiveness especially with the lessons in the middle - I felt like I knew what was coming and rehashing the emotions over and over got a little old for me. However, what an original concept! When the dolls were first revealed I gasped out loud. The exercises they were put through were unimaginable, and I can't believe more women didn't outwardly have breakdowns. As far as the ending - I loved it. I think it was the only logical ending since the book was so tumultuous. How could she NOT steal her daughter away for a few more precious moments?? I definitely had conflicting feelings about this one and can understand the people who adored it and the people who didn't like it, I am somewhere in the middle.

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Jul 13, 2022Liked by Virginia Sole-Smith

Good afternoon, I'm really excited to discuss this book BUT I haven't finished reading it yet. Almost done, but since I don't want any spoilers, I'm going to read the discussion thread once I'm finished (very soon!).

Suggestions for the next book..."Take My Hand" by Dolen Perkins-Valdez has been on my TBR list and sounds really good!

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Jul 13, 2022Liked by Virginia Sole-Smith

Exciting! For me these days it's a big tomato sandwich with basil mayonnaise (the one herb I can grow that the deer don't eat) and avocado and arugula, on sourdough. Delicious especially with some salt and vinegar chips on the side.

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Ah! I am so excited to see what people say about this book. I devoured it but then shared it with a friend who asked if I'd be offended if she stopped reading it b/c she was just not into it. I have seen a lot of people who wanted to like it/though they'd like it and just couldn't. So I'm curious to delve into the love/not-love.

I have a very nice lunch today--Smitten Kitchen's tomato/white bean roast and this salad I made with beets, lentils, arugula, hazelnuts and cheddar.

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OK also, I wrote this after Nancy commented on yesterday's thread that she loved the ending so now I'm really curious -- who loved it? Who thought it was traumatizing? I was so so scared about how fast she would get arrested and lose her daughter again that I couldn't even find it hopeful. But maybe it was supposed to be hopeful? Is there a possibility of escape? GAH.

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