Since yesterday was a subscriber-only podcast, I’m doing a rare free-for-all Friday Thread! Also, because I’m researching a new book chapter, and need your help/your stories.
So: I’m reporting on how anti-fat bias shows up for kids playing sports or doing other physical activities. Hell yes, we can include cheerleading and dance in this conversation! But I don’t think this is limited to “aesthetic athletics,” and it can happen in lots of different ways. Sometimes it’s as explicit as coaches pushing diets and weight loss or telling kid to “make weight” before a meet. But it’s often far more subtle: Kids may be cut from teams or aren’t encouraged to audition because they don’t have the “right” body for the activity (especially once they get into puberty). Uniforms or costumes aren’t size-inclusive. Or there’s just a general culture of intolerance around body size that makes these activities feel unsafe to kids in bigger bodies.
If your kid has had an experience like this, I’d love to hear about it. Include your child’s age, gender identity, when/how this happened and I may be in touch to set up an interview. If your child is old enough/up for it, I’d love to interview them too. In either case, we can change names to protect privacy. Also, feel free to hit reply and reach out over email if that feels better.
And if this happened to you when you were a kid, I’d love to hear about that too. How did it inform your understanding of your body and physical abilities? How does it continue to impact you now? (Again I may be in touch for an interview. If you’re up for that, please note your current age and how old you were when this happened.)
I’d also love to hear from teachers, coaches, etc who are working to combat the anti-fat bias inherent to their sport/activity! What are you doing differently? How can parents support you on this?
As always, please remember that this is an anti-diet, weight-inclusive space. Let’s keep things friendly and follow my Thread Ground Rules.
PS. In addition to being frequently useful for book research, I adore Friday Threads because we are building such a smart, supportive community here—I come away with some new perspective or helpful tip literally every week. Join us!
Also! 50 years ago, my step-mom, Mary Summers and several other activists made a documentary about abortion in a pre-Roe world. You can watch the trailer here. They’ve recently updated the film and are seeking to distribute it for free, as widely as possible, and would like to hire a freelance publicist to partner with them in that effort. Is that you? Job application details below:
Abortion and Women’s Rights 1970(28 mins) tells the stories of two of the more than 800,000 women who underwent illegal abortions every year before the Supreme Court declared a constitutional right to abortion with their Roe v. Wade decision in 1973. The film shows women calling for access to safe, affordable abortions and birth control, an end to forced sterilizations, and decent health care for all.
Duties will include: Developing and carrying out a strategic plan for promoting the film; maintaining its website; creating clips, social media posts, and outreach to relevant organizations, journalists, and social media. Excellent writing and social media skills, and relevant experience required. Pay: $30/hour, or according to experience.
Please send cover letter and resume to Mary, Jane and Karen: womensrights1970@gmail.com.
I grew up taking ballet classes, from the time I was 5 until I was 18. While no overt comments were made to me/about me directly, the general atmosphere of the studio (and let's be honest, ballet as a whole) was that body size & shape mattered. I remember many of us justifying our disordered eating habits as "just wanting to be a better dancer" or "keep my body in the best dancing shape possible".
As an adult, I now own a dance studio and my experience as a child and teen has really shaped the environment I strive to create for my students. Knowing the pressures I felt to have my body look a certain way despite not being told directly, I work to be very deliberate in the messages I send - from having a diverse staff of instructors, to making sure that compliments and corrections are not related to body shape/size, to choosing costuming that works for all dancers, to discussions about how we can embrace our own bodies and celebrate their individual strengths. I feel like I've been able to make some headway, especially with the older students who have been dancing with me for years. Unfortunately, I have been less successful with the parents! I can't tell you how many times I have a parent come in & say that they always wanted to be a dancer but they didn't have the body for it, or that their child loves it but will "never be a ballerina" because of their shape. I make a point to correct them, especially when their child is with them, but it makes me sad that how often this happens.
Whoops I thought I could but turns out I have a ton of Meghans on the list, ha. Can you email me at virginiasolesmith@gmail.com (or just hit reply to the next newsletter)? Thank you so much!!
Hi! I'd love to know some questions you think parents could ask to help learn in advance if a dance studio is body neutral and inclusive? Thank you so much for sharing if you're able!
I would openly ask how they foster an accepting, comfortable environment for students of all sizes. Any studio owner who has actively considered this should have an answer at hand. There are lots of specific questions you could ask (do they encourage thinness over body types, do they weigh students, are there weight requirements to progress to certain levels, etc) but I think asking about the general environment they try to cultivate would be more telling. I actually love when parents asking me things like this, because it gives me a chance to share!
If you can, I would definitely recommend you schedule a time to go visit the studio when classes are running, so you can see for yourself - are the students all one specific/same body size? When the instructor corrects movements, is it about their body shape or about their use of their body (ie: suck in your stomach vs lengthen your spine). There are likely photos up from previous performances, do the costumes look like they would work for varied bodies? Because the dance world deals with the ongoing stigma of weight discrimination, I think actions often speak louder than words.
I have been dancing my whole life, and it is my passion, so I appreciate those that want to ask questions to find a studio that works vs just writing ballet off as a whole!
Dance has become so much more body friendly! It’s so inspiring to me now to go to the dance studio with my kids and to see dancers of all shapes and sizes (including me! I’m a 45 year old tap dancer and a size 14). Thanks for helping lead the way!
I really appreciate that you are doing this. As an adult I have returned to dance classes at a traditional studio where I can tell the children are being taught formal, disciplined ballet. For adults it's fine, fun, and convenient. But for my toddler? I've just started her at a different dance school that seems much more chill and that was a deliberate choice on my part. I want dance to be fun while she's young, and if it stops being fun for her, she can stop.
I've been plus size since forever. I played soccer in high school -- fullback then goal keeper. I remember having to shop in the men's section to try and find a goalie shirt that sort of fit. I also danced -- ballet, tap, and jazz -- but was mostly ignored by the teachers because of my body type even though I was an awesome tapper. :-)
Today, I have a plus size daughter (13) that loves ballet and has taken classes since age 3. I tried to get her interested in other styles of dance, that are more body inclusive, but ballet is her passion. Our studio is actually pretty good. The costume mistress alters or makes new costumes for my daughter for the winter and spring shows. We have reached the point where I am having custom leotards and dance skirts (only one style allowed and it doesn't fit!) made for her. (Plus size leotards exist but are too large in the bust for my teen). I'm lucky that we have the privilege to be able to afford it.
We're starting auditions for summer session and having to carefully navigate that space together. The Joffrey application asks for height and weight for a program for 8-13 year olds. I filled in "This is concerning for a program for 8-14 year olds" o the weight questions so I don't think we'll get in! lol Honestly, without a long, lean body type I doubt she'd get in to the Joffrey anyway. Some places are better. She got into DADA's summer program right before the pandemic (cancelled). She is also auditioning for LINES Ballet summer program and I have slightly higher hopes there.
All of this is why I started a company to make athletic wear for plus size kids just before COVID hit. The pandemic has slowed progress a bit but I'm close to having samples of our first 5 pieces ready to photograph. I'm not currently planning to do athletic uniforms but I'm hoping to bring attention to the need so we can ask manufacturers to do better. But who knows? Maybe I'll have to dive in there too.
Pamela would LOVE to interview you and your daughter about her passion for dance, if she's up for it? (We can talk first, if you want!) Thank you so much for sharing.
Growing up I thought I was very overweight, though when I look back at photos I seem like a normal-ish size until about 4th / 5th grade. At that time I moved schools and the new place was tough to get adjusted to and I started eating for comfort. Up until 4th grade there was a lot of emphasis on 'activity'. It was as though my family was afraid I would get fat. My father's family has a tendency for being overweight in particular, so there was just this message in the air that we needed to avoid this. I was signed up for tennis, gymnastics, dance, swimming, aerobics though what I really wanted to do was read and paint. Once I did become overweight my mom went into overdrive to get me to move. Except by then it was hard to move my body. I was embarrassed that it was so much tougher for me than the other kids and I didn't enjoy it. So I retreated. We would sign up for 1 class, I would quit. Then another one, and I would quit that too.
I now have kids of my own who are young. And I am very overweight. I've shared some of my struggles here before. And I have to tell you, it is hard not to fall into the trap above. I desperately want them to enjoy moving their body. I want them to be active. I want to scream 'you do not want to be like me - this is no fun!' but that's not a message that a child can understand and so I mostly go out and walk with them which is the extent of my physical ability right now. I know I don't want to repeat what my parents did, but I struggle to identify the alternative to the above.
Ana would love to hear more of your story if you feel comfortable sharing in an interview? Thank you so much for contributing here -- I always appreciate it so much!
Does choir/dance/theater count? I loved performing until high school casting. The theater director was a former dancer and aerobics instructor and believed that leading ladies came in one shape only. So despite being one of the better actors in class, I was either cast as the spinster/mother, or once, when I got to play a young woman, my character thought she was a dancer but wasn't any good--and my fat body in a leotard and tutu was played for laughs. If I was in a dance number I was always in the back, even when people in front of me didn't know the routine as well. When I applied for a high school acting troupe that included members from all over the city, we all understood that I was only in competition with the 3 other fat girls trying out, because they'd have to take one of us--for diversity.
When I look back at the pictures, my heart breaks because even though I was tiny-fat back then, I came to understand that my body said something to "the audience" (which was the whole world, not just the people looking at the stage) before I said or did anything. I would always be fat first and something else second. It was a big drag. As a result, I dropped out of drama and the chamber choir for my last two years, saying at the time that they were lame--but I loved performing so much, so it was a big blow. I try not to, but I still worry about my size every time I am in front of a group, I have a good voice but won't join in the karaoke fun, I love to dance but there's still a voice in the back of my head that says I'll look like a joke if I try to do anything that would make me stand out. I'm 48 now, and so this was ages 15-17.
When I played field hockey in high school, we had kilts as part of our uniform. We got our set for the season and then had to return them at the end. They were wool and closed with two buttons and button holes, though we weren't supposed to move the buttons since we had to give them back. There were never enough larger sizes and so many people had to wear theirs secured with safety pins for games. I have a visceral memory of my stomach hurting from wearing mine buttoned. (I now have two girls who are young but have already faced difficulty finding plus sized sports pants and shorts, or just any that aren't super straight and narrow. I worry how fast they'll feel like they don't fit in a sport because the clothes for the sport don't fit their body.)
I think if you're doing this hard and good work of trying your best to find active clothes for your kids they'll be buffered from this sort of disappointment for a while. I was a fat grade schooler who played soccer, swam, and did ballet. I have vague memories of my mom staying up late to make my ballet skirts BY HAND to make sure I had something to match the other girls in recitals. She also never brought attention to this extra labor she (yes, my dad did not help) put into making sure I had clothes that worked for me. It sucks that she had to do that, but it also gave me the freedom to just be a kid and enjoy my activities. Unfortunately, increasing independence in middle school meant I began navigating indirect conversations about my body with coaches and instructors solo. I think I probably would have benefited from transitional conversations to learn how to advocate for myself, instead of feeling the casual fatphobia and not having the language to process what was happening.
I spent HOURS looking for softball pants last year for my then 8 year old. I cannot sew softball pants and the ones that exist are not remotely inclusive. I feel like at a certain point, the only option is regular leggings or shorts and then your kid doesn't look like the rest of the team and that is full of stigma too. We're doing our best, but the market sure makes it hard on parents. Your mom should not have had to do what she did. It's AMAZING that she did and I'm really glad you had that experience. That's a crazy expectation for parents though given how many children do not fit the "slim" styles of most clothing right now.
I was always a very nerdy kid. I played all the neighborhood kid games, but except for riding my bike, most of the things I loved to do, like read and play piano, involved sitting on my butt. I was actually fine with that.
My body changed as I approached puberty and I became 'chubby'. By default, this locked me into the butt-sitting meme, because my reputation as a nerd plus my expanding size, fit the stereotype. Lacking encouragement to practice, I 'became' a klutz. I was scorned in gym class, including most of my gym teachers. No overt bullying, but that scorn was a killer.
My husband and I joined a gym in our early 40's. One Sunday I attended a class on how to use the exercise equipment. The class was led by one very personable, gifted trainer and his partner: two impossibly beautiful people who were actually really good educators. I started training with the man who had led the class and was shocked to discover that I LOVED black iron! Here was a sport where I just naturally excelled.
I've been training now, off and on, for 25 years. I've never done this in the hope that I would become ripped, but I love how strong and capable I feel. The years I spent convinced that I was a fat klutz (and thus, inherently unworthy) were NOT a waste, because I became an example for my daughters, and I can share it with y'all now. But sometimes I wonder what might have been.
I was a varsity athlete in high school, in swimming and tennis. I wasn't good at athletics, but I was decent enough. I don't remember anything from my coaches that was shaming, just normal coach berating (which I hated, but which was aimed equally at everyone). But what's stuck with me for years was a doctor's checkup, wherein the doctor informed me that she was very, very concerned about my weight. Looking back, I'm not even sure why she brought it up: my BMI at the time was solidly "normal", although I was a pretty precocious developer and so was curvy, with large thighs and breasts by 16.
But at the time, all I could think was: I am working out 3-4 hours nearly every single day. What more could you possibly want from me? That, combined with my mother's and extended family's constant dieting treadmill, put in my mind that doctors were impossible to please, that for whatever reason weight was a Sisyphean problem for our family and we had to work a literally unreal amount just to not get any fatter. I wasn't cognizant enough to put together that maybe some people are just bigger (although once I came across it, it felt like being told something I already knew subconsciously).
But I did avoid going to the doctor for over a decade, outside of acute illness/injury. And I dropped out of sports. It was fun, but lots of things are fun. I wasn't good enough at them to win anything. And if I was just going to be fat regardless...what was the point of all that work?
I am so glad you're researching this. My toddler is too little still, but I definitely have this on my radar as she's starting to approach the age for dance classes and group sports. How can I make sure I'm putting her in a positive environment? I'd love to learn more from other parents of older kids what research and questions I can ask in advance of things like dance classes or soccer groups to help me figure that out.
On my end, I remember, even as a four year old, the ballet class I took at the Y where the instructor kept talking to us about "long lean lines" and pulling our belly buttons to our spines. I hated it and quit within weeks. I actually ended up loving dance classes through my school, we had the most wonderful, inclusive dance teacher who truly believed everyone deserved to find joy in dance. I ended up finding a "hack" to taking positive dance classes as a teen: I would join Adult Beginner/Intermediate classes. SUCH a different environment than when you go into a class of other teens who have been dancing since they were little. Looking back, there should have been a way that I could have felt comfortable learning in a group of kids my own age. Sports for me were just always a no. I hated them, and my parents didn't force the issue. That's something I really want to pass on to my daughter — it's okay if something doesn't feel right for her. I have no regrets about not doing sports in any meaningful way growing up.
So much of what other posters resonates with me. My kid is 5. He's tall and solid but looks child-straight-sized. But, like me, he gets really, really overheated when exercising. He's physically very similar to me overall. And so it's hard to stop myself from future projecting on to him all the gym-sports experiences I had that were NOT good. But they haven't happened yet. For my part, I was tall - basically the tallest kid in any of my elementary school classes - and also had a larger body (though again, looking back, I am like..what was everyone so worried about??!). I got boobs early. My PE teacher kind of mocked me for this way I kind of ran 'holding' my boobs until I got a sport bra (more mocking from classmates). I have asthma, too. Let's just say that PE was just a horror zone all around and internalized the fat + asthma=not sporty thing pretty early. I was always a good swimmer and started swimming competitively in the summer when I was 11. I was OK kind of B-team material. Coaches were good, but bathing suits aren't exactly the dream scenario for a girl who had been told from age ~8 onwards that my body was too big by my family, both directly and indirectly through the intense family dieting behavior of my mom, aunt, grandmother. We got a trampoline for my 11th birthday, but I remember overhearing my mom basically say that they bought it because it was one kind of exercise I would actually DO, wink wink. I still lived on that thing, but it always hung over the joy. I hated hiking, walking and all these family activities (that I love now, btw) because it was clear to me they were BECAUSE YOU NEED TO EXERCISE. Not for the joy or experience. I was always trailing at the end, everyone ahead, demoralized and miserable. It wasn't until college, when for some reason I started going to the gym there to work out and kind of, well, LIKED IT, and was like: oh, I can do this? And it felt...good. I've mostly figure out what works for me these days - what joyful movement feels like and what I want to do. This whole exercise as joy, not punishment/requirement/payment-for-food approach was a revelation. And most 'classes' are off the table. Just too much PE trauma. I did one recently with a bunch of neighborhood moms and I really loved some aspects of it, but it just didn't 'feel' good. And so I stopped.
When I was in middle school, the high school gymnastics coach came through our gym class to recruit. We were all lined up and he ran us through a few exercises, assessing our potential. I was one of the bigger and more developed girls, but I was strong and fast and flexible and proud of it. When the coach came by me, he shook his head and said loudly "You're surprisingly flexible for your size! Too bad" and then he passed me by. I tried to laugh it off at the time, like whatever I didn't want to do gymnastics anyway, but it made a deep wound. Later it came out that female gymnasts in my town (and around the country) had been assaulted by a local doctor (you may have heard of the lawsuit!), enabled by people like that coach who had dismissed me so quickly because of my size. I guess it was a favor in the end.
This was very much my experience with running cross country in high school - that you had to be very thin and generally have a “runners body” that was very long and lean.
I had (and continue to have) a very large bust. At the time I didn’t have very supportive sports bras in large part because they weren’t marketing underwire bras in my size (32G). We did our annual sports bra run my senior year and the next day a bunch of guys from the football team asked me about my “black eye” and then laughed hysterically as they explained that they thought I would have given myself a black eye “when your tits bounce like that” 🙃
I mostly gave up running after that - until I found a (very expensive) sports bra with underwire in it when I was 23.
I remember my older sister also being in ballet, up until the time she was told she was too big to be on pointe with the other girls in her class. I, on the other hand, was in dance classes from age 3-17, and often praised for having a "dancer's body". (That became a real mind-eff, when as an adult I have ended up having a very different body than I did as a teen.)
The studio I was at was pretty neutral, as far as I can remember, until they hired a new ballet teacher. She was very serious. One bigger-bodied classmate ended up in tears because she would no longer allow us to wear ballet skirts and she felt so uncomfortably exposed without one. She ended up allowing her to wear one, but I dont know if it was better or worse to be the only one with a skirt.
At this point, I was taking 7 classes a week, at the studio 4 days a week, spending hours there. I would usually bring something to reheat and eat between classes. I was always a hollow-leg kind of kid, and I would justify my carb heavy dinners because I was just going to burn it off, right? I remember one time, she saw me eating a Stouffer's Mac and Cheese (yum) and cautioned me about carbs and encouraged me to really watch what I ate because "Obesity runs in your family". She suggested instead of ice cream, I try a "Ballerina Sundae", which is just plain greek yogurt with maybe a drizzle of honey.
I was super offended and rejected her suggestions, but it got filed away in my head anyway.
Oh my gosh, I had a ballet teacher who constantly praised my "dancer's body" when I was a skinny little prepubescent kid, like 9-11 years old. In retrospect, he was probably kind of a pedophile.
My 9 year old is in a larger body both height and weight. He has no interest in sports and we do not push him, but I feel sad that he is missing out on something that I enjoyed as a chubby, uncoordinated kid. Maybe I just got lucky and it was a less competitive time in the 80s? He loves being outside and walking/hiking, which is what I also enjoy now.
One big issue that has bothered me is that they give out t-shirts at summer camp and always give him a too small size. Last summer we never succeeded in getting him one that fit. I should have advocated more strongly for him. We have asked his teacher each year to have his desk raised before school starts so he can be comfortable on day one.
This is related more to fatphobia and less to sports but I have tried explain a lot that clothing sizes vary just like body sizes and it doesn't matter what size you wear, it's that your clothes fit and are comfortable. He has been bothered to see size 14 or 16 on his clothes and often hesitant to rotate things out of his drawers that he has outgrown.
I was on my school's dance team from 7th-9th grade in the early 2000s. My first coach was amazing and supportive, but my second coach was a pretty immature, new teacher. She would have lunch with my best friend and I - who were co-captains of the team at the time - and body shame the other girls on the team. She would talk about how the uniforms didn't fit them as well or how they shouldn't expect leadership positions on the team when they didn't look like dancers. Pretty soon after this, my best friend started exclusively drinking slim fast shakes for lunch. As a child who was straight sized but always felt too large, especially in the dance world, this confirmation from an adult that my thinking was correct, and that I did, in fact, need to be concerned about my body size if people were going to take me seriously stuck with me well into my twenties.
I took ballet classes from the ages of 4-12. I remember distinctly going through puberty in this environment was especially rough, because although I had the height to dance seriously, my breasts became a problem rather quickly. I had to wear a dance bra, which was something my friends didn’t need, and I had difficulty fitting in the costumes. While some of my friends went on to dance in more serious environments, I was encouraged to find something else to do, because my body was no longer desirable to dance. I was devastated to loose my place in my favorite after school activity. I had been dancing at a high level and there was no longer a place for me in this new body. I stopped doing physical activity completely. I was never encouraged to diet. I was told that my body was wrong. I never really got over that.
Not on kids sports’ per se, but have you read about Maren Lundby, the Norwegian skier who declined to compete in the Olympics because she didn’t want to force her body to lose weight quickly (or at all)? There’s an interview with her in the NYT (Feb. 7), and she speaks with amazing frankness and honesty about weight and mental health in the sport at elite levels. She was voted person of the year in Norway for sparking important conversation about weight and mental health!
I’m a little late to this conversation, and I don’t have much to add in regards to being a person who weighs more, but I could talk for YEARS about how being 6 feet tall in high school impacted all of these things. I was nearly forced to play basketball (until they realized how uncoordinated I truly was) and I specifically didn’t get a part in the school play my senior year because I was “too tall to be believable” in any of the parts. This was after being in the play the previous three years of high school. That teacher is still a jerk to this day.
I've been thinking about this all day, and I think my height overshadowed anything that could have been impacted by my weight, probably because it was the more extreme of the two...
I'm so glad my kids have never experienced this, although their body sizes are much closer to an idealized norm than mine ever was. I have to share a personal experience, though. In 6th grade all of my friends were playing soccer. I was, of course, the fat girl who avoided athletic activity, not because I didn't want to try, but because I knew kids were snickering behind my back about the fat girl running, jumping, trying to do chin ups, etc. But I didn't want to be left out and joined my best friend's soccer team. And then this happened: my dad got the information, told me they didn't let kids over 150 lbs play on the soccer team (um, no), made me get on a scale in front of him (185 lbs at that point), and told me I had to lose 15 lbs before the start of soccer season if I wanted to play. The moment of standing on my parents' bathroom scale in front of my father will never not replay over and over in my brain. I didn't lose the 15 lbs, but played one season of soccer and then quit because I couldn't handle my dad telling me that it was my slow, fat ass that was the reason our team never won. And we wonder why I developed bulimia in my 20s and was able to drop to 150 lbs, before my now-husband dragged me kicking and screaming into therapy.
Back to being fat, but also have fully embraced the athletics I enjoy (kickboxing!). I hate that the assumption is that I'm doing those things because I need or want to get back to 150 lbs again, but really, they make me feel good about myself, irrespective of my weight.
I have one kid that is a competitive swimmer and another who loves tap dance.
I grew up taking ballet classes, from the time I was 5 until I was 18. While no overt comments were made to me/about me directly, the general atmosphere of the studio (and let's be honest, ballet as a whole) was that body size & shape mattered. I remember many of us justifying our disordered eating habits as "just wanting to be a better dancer" or "keep my body in the best dancing shape possible".
As an adult, I now own a dance studio and my experience as a child and teen has really shaped the environment I strive to create for my students. Knowing the pressures I felt to have my body look a certain way despite not being told directly, I work to be very deliberate in the messages I send - from having a diverse staff of instructors, to making sure that compliments and corrections are not related to body shape/size, to choosing costuming that works for all dancers, to discussions about how we can embrace our own bodies and celebrate their individual strengths. I feel like I've been able to make some headway, especially with the older students who have been dancing with me for years. Unfortunately, I have been less successful with the parents! I can't tell you how many times I have a parent come in & say that they always wanted to be a dancer but they didn't have the body for it, or that their child loves it but will "never be a ballerina" because of their shape. I make a point to correct them, especially when their child is with them, but it makes me sad that how often this happens.
Would love to chat with you about this! OK if I email?
Yes, feel free! I am assuming you can see my email on your end, if not let me know.
Whoops I thought I could but turns out I have a ton of Meghans on the list, ha. Can you email me at virginiasolesmith@gmail.com (or just hit reply to the next newsletter)? Thank you so much!!
Hi! I'd love to know some questions you think parents could ask to help learn in advance if a dance studio is body neutral and inclusive? Thank you so much for sharing if you're able!
Also so interested in this!
I would openly ask how they foster an accepting, comfortable environment for students of all sizes. Any studio owner who has actively considered this should have an answer at hand. There are lots of specific questions you could ask (do they encourage thinness over body types, do they weigh students, are there weight requirements to progress to certain levels, etc) but I think asking about the general environment they try to cultivate would be more telling. I actually love when parents asking me things like this, because it gives me a chance to share!
If you can, I would definitely recommend you schedule a time to go visit the studio when classes are running, so you can see for yourself - are the students all one specific/same body size? When the instructor corrects movements, is it about their body shape or about their use of their body (ie: suck in your stomach vs lengthen your spine). There are likely photos up from previous performances, do the costumes look like they would work for varied bodies? Because the dance world deals with the ongoing stigma of weight discrimination, I think actions often speak louder than words.
I have been dancing my whole life, and it is my passion, so I appreciate those that want to ask questions to find a studio that works vs just writing ballet off as a whole!
thank you so much for taking this time to answer!
Dance has become so much more body friendly! It’s so inspiring to me now to go to the dance studio with my kids and to see dancers of all shapes and sizes (including me! I’m a 45 year old tap dancer and a size 14). Thanks for helping lead the way!
I really appreciate that you are doing this. As an adult I have returned to dance classes at a traditional studio where I can tell the children are being taught formal, disciplined ballet. For adults it's fine, fun, and convenient. But for my toddler? I've just started her at a different dance school that seems much more chill and that was a deliberate choice on my part. I want dance to be fun while she's young, and if it stops being fun for her, she can stop.
I've been plus size since forever. I played soccer in high school -- fullback then goal keeper. I remember having to shop in the men's section to try and find a goalie shirt that sort of fit. I also danced -- ballet, tap, and jazz -- but was mostly ignored by the teachers because of my body type even though I was an awesome tapper. :-)
Today, I have a plus size daughter (13) that loves ballet and has taken classes since age 3. I tried to get her interested in other styles of dance, that are more body inclusive, but ballet is her passion. Our studio is actually pretty good. The costume mistress alters or makes new costumes for my daughter for the winter and spring shows. We have reached the point where I am having custom leotards and dance skirts (only one style allowed and it doesn't fit!) made for her. (Plus size leotards exist but are too large in the bust for my teen). I'm lucky that we have the privilege to be able to afford it.
We're starting auditions for summer session and having to carefully navigate that space together. The Joffrey application asks for height and weight for a program for 8-13 year olds. I filled in "This is concerning for a program for 8-14 year olds" o the weight questions so I don't think we'll get in! lol Honestly, without a long, lean body type I doubt she'd get in to the Joffrey anyway. Some places are better. She got into DADA's summer program right before the pandemic (cancelled). She is also auditioning for LINES Ballet summer program and I have slightly higher hopes there.
All of this is why I started a company to make athletic wear for plus size kids just before COVID hit. The pandemic has slowed progress a bit but I'm close to having samples of our first 5 pieces ready to photograph. I'm not currently planning to do athletic uniforms but I'm hoping to bring attention to the need so we can ask manufacturers to do better. But who knows? Maybe I'll have to dive in there too.
Pamela would LOVE to interview you and your daughter about her passion for dance, if she's up for it? (We can talk first, if you want!) Thank you so much for sharing.
Hi, I'm happy to ask her. It might be helpful to chat briefly first. I just sent you an email.
Growing up I thought I was very overweight, though when I look back at photos I seem like a normal-ish size until about 4th / 5th grade. At that time I moved schools and the new place was tough to get adjusted to and I started eating for comfort. Up until 4th grade there was a lot of emphasis on 'activity'. It was as though my family was afraid I would get fat. My father's family has a tendency for being overweight in particular, so there was just this message in the air that we needed to avoid this. I was signed up for tennis, gymnastics, dance, swimming, aerobics though what I really wanted to do was read and paint. Once I did become overweight my mom went into overdrive to get me to move. Except by then it was hard to move my body. I was embarrassed that it was so much tougher for me than the other kids and I didn't enjoy it. So I retreated. We would sign up for 1 class, I would quit. Then another one, and I would quit that too.
I now have kids of my own who are young. And I am very overweight. I've shared some of my struggles here before. And I have to tell you, it is hard not to fall into the trap above. I desperately want them to enjoy moving their body. I want them to be active. I want to scream 'you do not want to be like me - this is no fun!' but that's not a message that a child can understand and so I mostly go out and walk with them which is the extent of my physical ability right now. I know I don't want to repeat what my parents did, but I struggle to identify the alternative to the above.
Ana would love to hear more of your story if you feel comfortable sharing in an interview? Thank you so much for contributing here -- I always appreciate it so much!
Sure - happy to. Thanks
Does choir/dance/theater count? I loved performing until high school casting. The theater director was a former dancer and aerobics instructor and believed that leading ladies came in one shape only. So despite being one of the better actors in class, I was either cast as the spinster/mother, or once, when I got to play a young woman, my character thought she was a dancer but wasn't any good--and my fat body in a leotard and tutu was played for laughs. If I was in a dance number I was always in the back, even when people in front of me didn't know the routine as well. When I applied for a high school acting troupe that included members from all over the city, we all understood that I was only in competition with the 3 other fat girls trying out, because they'd have to take one of us--for diversity.
When I look back at the pictures, my heart breaks because even though I was tiny-fat back then, I came to understand that my body said something to "the audience" (which was the whole world, not just the people looking at the stage) before I said or did anything. I would always be fat first and something else second. It was a big drag. As a result, I dropped out of drama and the chamber choir for my last two years, saying at the time that they were lame--but I loved performing so much, so it was a big blow. I try not to, but I still worry about my size every time I am in front of a group, I have a good voice but won't join in the karaoke fun, I love to dance but there's still a voice in the back of my head that says I'll look like a joke if I try to do anything that would make me stand out. I'm 48 now, and so this was ages 15-17.
UGH. Choir, dance, theater all definitely count -- this is so common and so shitty. I'm sorry you experienced that.
When I played field hockey in high school, we had kilts as part of our uniform. We got our set for the season and then had to return them at the end. They were wool and closed with two buttons and button holes, though we weren't supposed to move the buttons since we had to give them back. There were never enough larger sizes and so many people had to wear theirs secured with safety pins for games. I have a visceral memory of my stomach hurting from wearing mine buttoned. (I now have two girls who are young but have already faced difficulty finding plus sized sports pants and shorts, or just any that aren't super straight and narrow. I worry how fast they'll feel like they don't fit in a sport because the clothes for the sport don't fit their body.)
I think if you're doing this hard and good work of trying your best to find active clothes for your kids they'll be buffered from this sort of disappointment for a while. I was a fat grade schooler who played soccer, swam, and did ballet. I have vague memories of my mom staying up late to make my ballet skirts BY HAND to make sure I had something to match the other girls in recitals. She also never brought attention to this extra labor she (yes, my dad did not help) put into making sure I had clothes that worked for me. It sucks that she had to do that, but it also gave me the freedom to just be a kid and enjoy my activities. Unfortunately, increasing independence in middle school meant I began navigating indirect conversations about my body with coaches and instructors solo. I think I probably would have benefited from transitional conversations to learn how to advocate for myself, instead of feeling the casual fatphobia and not having the language to process what was happening.
I spent HOURS looking for softball pants last year for my then 8 year old. I cannot sew softball pants and the ones that exist are not remotely inclusive. I feel like at a certain point, the only option is regular leggings or shorts and then your kid doesn't look like the rest of the team and that is full of stigma too. We're doing our best, but the market sure makes it hard on parents. Your mom should not have had to do what she did. It's AMAZING that she did and I'm really glad you had that experience. That's a crazy expectation for parents though given how many children do not fit the "slim" styles of most clothing right now.
I was always a very nerdy kid. I played all the neighborhood kid games, but except for riding my bike, most of the things I loved to do, like read and play piano, involved sitting on my butt. I was actually fine with that.
My body changed as I approached puberty and I became 'chubby'. By default, this locked me into the butt-sitting meme, because my reputation as a nerd plus my expanding size, fit the stereotype. Lacking encouragement to practice, I 'became' a klutz. I was scorned in gym class, including most of my gym teachers. No overt bullying, but that scorn was a killer.
My husband and I joined a gym in our early 40's. One Sunday I attended a class on how to use the exercise equipment. The class was led by one very personable, gifted trainer and his partner: two impossibly beautiful people who were actually really good educators. I started training with the man who had led the class and was shocked to discover that I LOVED black iron! Here was a sport where I just naturally excelled.
I've been training now, off and on, for 25 years. I've never done this in the hope that I would become ripped, but I love how strong and capable I feel. The years I spent convinced that I was a fat klutz (and thus, inherently unworthy) were NOT a waste, because I became an example for my daughters, and I can share it with y'all now. But sometimes I wonder what might have been.
I was a varsity athlete in high school, in swimming and tennis. I wasn't good at athletics, but I was decent enough. I don't remember anything from my coaches that was shaming, just normal coach berating (which I hated, but which was aimed equally at everyone). But what's stuck with me for years was a doctor's checkup, wherein the doctor informed me that she was very, very concerned about my weight. Looking back, I'm not even sure why she brought it up: my BMI at the time was solidly "normal", although I was a pretty precocious developer and so was curvy, with large thighs and breasts by 16.
But at the time, all I could think was: I am working out 3-4 hours nearly every single day. What more could you possibly want from me? That, combined with my mother's and extended family's constant dieting treadmill, put in my mind that doctors were impossible to please, that for whatever reason weight was a Sisyphean problem for our family and we had to work a literally unreal amount just to not get any fatter. I wasn't cognizant enough to put together that maybe some people are just bigger (although once I came across it, it felt like being told something I already knew subconsciously).
But I did avoid going to the doctor for over a decade, outside of acute illness/injury. And I dropped out of sports. It was fun, but lots of things are fun. I wasn't good enough at them to win anything. And if I was just going to be fat regardless...what was the point of all that work?
Those comments in doctor's offices do SUCH harm.
I am so glad you're researching this. My toddler is too little still, but I definitely have this on my radar as she's starting to approach the age for dance classes and group sports. How can I make sure I'm putting her in a positive environment? I'd love to learn more from other parents of older kids what research and questions I can ask in advance of things like dance classes or soccer groups to help me figure that out.
On my end, I remember, even as a four year old, the ballet class I took at the Y where the instructor kept talking to us about "long lean lines" and pulling our belly buttons to our spines. I hated it and quit within weeks. I actually ended up loving dance classes through my school, we had the most wonderful, inclusive dance teacher who truly believed everyone deserved to find joy in dance. I ended up finding a "hack" to taking positive dance classes as a teen: I would join Adult Beginner/Intermediate classes. SUCH a different environment than when you go into a class of other teens who have been dancing since they were little. Looking back, there should have been a way that I could have felt comfortable learning in a group of kids my own age. Sports for me were just always a no. I hated them, and my parents didn't force the issue. That's something I really want to pass on to my daughter — it's okay if something doesn't feel right for her. I have no regrets about not doing sports in any meaningful way growing up.
I'm also a zero regrets on no sports person... but I do wish I'd found joyful movement so much earlier. These thoughts are all so helpful, thanks!
So much of what other posters resonates with me. My kid is 5. He's tall and solid but looks child-straight-sized. But, like me, he gets really, really overheated when exercising. He's physically very similar to me overall. And so it's hard to stop myself from future projecting on to him all the gym-sports experiences I had that were NOT good. But they haven't happened yet. For my part, I was tall - basically the tallest kid in any of my elementary school classes - and also had a larger body (though again, looking back, I am like..what was everyone so worried about??!). I got boobs early. My PE teacher kind of mocked me for this way I kind of ran 'holding' my boobs until I got a sport bra (more mocking from classmates). I have asthma, too. Let's just say that PE was just a horror zone all around and internalized the fat + asthma=not sporty thing pretty early. I was always a good swimmer and started swimming competitively in the summer when I was 11. I was OK kind of B-team material. Coaches were good, but bathing suits aren't exactly the dream scenario for a girl who had been told from age ~8 onwards that my body was too big by my family, both directly and indirectly through the intense family dieting behavior of my mom, aunt, grandmother. We got a trampoline for my 11th birthday, but I remember overhearing my mom basically say that they bought it because it was one kind of exercise I would actually DO, wink wink. I still lived on that thing, but it always hung over the joy. I hated hiking, walking and all these family activities (that I love now, btw) because it was clear to me they were BECAUSE YOU NEED TO EXERCISE. Not for the joy or experience. I was always trailing at the end, everyone ahead, demoralized and miserable. It wasn't until college, when for some reason I started going to the gym there to work out and kind of, well, LIKED IT, and was like: oh, I can do this? And it felt...good. I've mostly figure out what works for me these days - what joyful movement feels like and what I want to do. This whole exercise as joy, not punishment/requirement/payment-for-food approach was a revelation. And most 'classes' are off the table. Just too much PE trauma. I did one recently with a bunch of neighborhood moms and I really loved some aspects of it, but it just didn't 'feel' good. And so I stopped.
OH MY GOD that PE Teacher mocking (or even commenting!) on how you ran...
When I was in middle school, the high school gymnastics coach came through our gym class to recruit. We were all lined up and he ran us through a few exercises, assessing our potential. I was one of the bigger and more developed girls, but I was strong and fast and flexible and proud of it. When the coach came by me, he shook his head and said loudly "You're surprisingly flexible for your size! Too bad" and then he passed me by. I tried to laugh it off at the time, like whatever I didn't want to do gymnastics anyway, but it made a deep wound. Later it came out that female gymnasts in my town (and around the country) had been assaulted by a local doctor (you may have heard of the lawsuit!), enabled by people like that coach who had dismissed me so quickly because of my size. I guess it was a favor in the end.
Maybe a favor, but a BRUTAL one. Oy. All around.
This was very much my experience with running cross country in high school - that you had to be very thin and generally have a “runners body” that was very long and lean.
I had (and continue to have) a very large bust. At the time I didn’t have very supportive sports bras in large part because they weren’t marketing underwire bras in my size (32G). We did our annual sports bra run my senior year and the next day a bunch of guys from the football team asked me about my “black eye” and then laughed hysterically as they explained that they thought I would have given myself a black eye “when your tits bounce like that” 🙃
I mostly gave up running after that - until I found a (very expensive) sports bra with underwire in it when I was 23.
And why are clothes that aren’t straight sized so much more expensive?
I remember my older sister also being in ballet, up until the time she was told she was too big to be on pointe with the other girls in her class. I, on the other hand, was in dance classes from age 3-17, and often praised for having a "dancer's body". (That became a real mind-eff, when as an adult I have ended up having a very different body than I did as a teen.)
The studio I was at was pretty neutral, as far as I can remember, until they hired a new ballet teacher. She was very serious. One bigger-bodied classmate ended up in tears because she would no longer allow us to wear ballet skirts and she felt so uncomfortably exposed without one. She ended up allowing her to wear one, but I dont know if it was better or worse to be the only one with a skirt.
At this point, I was taking 7 classes a week, at the studio 4 days a week, spending hours there. I would usually bring something to reheat and eat between classes. I was always a hollow-leg kind of kid, and I would justify my carb heavy dinners because I was just going to burn it off, right? I remember one time, she saw me eating a Stouffer's Mac and Cheese (yum) and cautioned me about carbs and encouraged me to really watch what I ate because "Obesity runs in your family". She suggested instead of ice cream, I try a "Ballerina Sundae", which is just plain greek yogurt with maybe a drizzle of honey.
I was super offended and rejected her suggestions, but it got filed away in my head anyway.
Oh my gosh, I had a ballet teacher who constantly praised my "dancer's body" when I was a skinny little prepubescent kid, like 9-11 years old. In retrospect, he was probably kind of a pedophile.
My 9 year old is in a larger body both height and weight. He has no interest in sports and we do not push him, but I feel sad that he is missing out on something that I enjoyed as a chubby, uncoordinated kid. Maybe I just got lucky and it was a less competitive time in the 80s? He loves being outside and walking/hiking, which is what I also enjoy now.
One big issue that has bothered me is that they give out t-shirts at summer camp and always give him a too small size. Last summer we never succeeded in getting him one that fit. I should have advocated more strongly for him. We have asked his teacher each year to have his desk raised before school starts so he can be comfortable on day one.
This is related more to fatphobia and less to sports but I have tried explain a lot that clothing sizes vary just like body sizes and it doesn't matter what size you wear, it's that your clothes fit and are comfortable. He has been bothered to see size 14 or 16 on his clothes and often hesitant to rotate things out of his drawers that he has outgrown.
Camp shirts are a total nightmare for this! So frustrating.
I was on my school's dance team from 7th-9th grade in the early 2000s. My first coach was amazing and supportive, but my second coach was a pretty immature, new teacher. She would have lunch with my best friend and I - who were co-captains of the team at the time - and body shame the other girls on the team. She would talk about how the uniforms didn't fit them as well or how they shouldn't expect leadership positions on the team when they didn't look like dancers. Pretty soon after this, my best friend started exclusively drinking slim fast shakes for lunch. As a child who was straight sized but always felt too large, especially in the dance world, this confirmation from an adult that my thinking was correct, and that I did, in fact, need to be concerned about my body size if people were going to take me seriously stuck with me well into my twenties.
Oh wow. So so harmful.
I took ballet classes from the ages of 4-12. I remember distinctly going through puberty in this environment was especially rough, because although I had the height to dance seriously, my breasts became a problem rather quickly. I had to wear a dance bra, which was something my friends didn’t need, and I had difficulty fitting in the costumes. While some of my friends went on to dance in more serious environments, I was encouraged to find something else to do, because my body was no longer desirable to dance. I was devastated to loose my place in my favorite after school activity. I had been dancing at a high level and there was no longer a place for me in this new body. I stopped doing physical activity completely. I was never encouraged to diet. I was told that my body was wrong. I never really got over that.
There are WAY too many dance stories like this. So heart-breaking.
Not on kids sports’ per se, but have you read about Maren Lundby, the Norwegian skier who declined to compete in the Olympics because she didn’t want to force her body to lose weight quickly (or at all)? There’s an interview with her in the NYT (Feb. 7), and she speaks with amazing frankness and honesty about weight and mental health in the sport at elite levels. She was voted person of the year in Norway for sparking important conversation about weight and mental health!
I’m a little late to this conversation, and I don’t have much to add in regards to being a person who weighs more, but I could talk for YEARS about how being 6 feet tall in high school impacted all of these things. I was nearly forced to play basketball (until they realized how uncoordinated I truly was) and I specifically didn’t get a part in the school play my senior year because I was “too tall to be believable” in any of the parts. This was after being in the play the previous three years of high school. That teacher is still a jerk to this day.
That’s it. Y’all are all so lovely.
Oh SO jerky. And yes, height and sports is absolutely a whole thing...
I've been thinking about this all day, and I think my height overshadowed anything that could have been impacted by my weight, probably because it was the more extreme of the two...
I'm so glad my kids have never experienced this, although their body sizes are much closer to an idealized norm than mine ever was. I have to share a personal experience, though. In 6th grade all of my friends were playing soccer. I was, of course, the fat girl who avoided athletic activity, not because I didn't want to try, but because I knew kids were snickering behind my back about the fat girl running, jumping, trying to do chin ups, etc. But I didn't want to be left out and joined my best friend's soccer team. And then this happened: my dad got the information, told me they didn't let kids over 150 lbs play on the soccer team (um, no), made me get on a scale in front of him (185 lbs at that point), and told me I had to lose 15 lbs before the start of soccer season if I wanted to play. The moment of standing on my parents' bathroom scale in front of my father will never not replay over and over in my brain. I didn't lose the 15 lbs, but played one season of soccer and then quit because I couldn't handle my dad telling me that it was my slow, fat ass that was the reason our team never won. And we wonder why I developed bulimia in my 20s and was able to drop to 150 lbs, before my now-husband dragged me kicking and screaming into therapy.
Back to being fat, but also have fully embraced the athletics I enjoy (kickboxing!). I hate that the assumption is that I'm doing those things because I need or want to get back to 150 lbs again, but really, they make me feel good about myself, irrespective of my weight.
I have one kid that is a competitive swimmer and another who loves tap dance.
I’m sorry, WHAT.