Virginia
You’re listening to Burnt Toast. This is the podcast about diet culture, anti fat bias parenting and health. I’m Virginia Sole-Smith I also write the Burnt Toast newsletter.
Corinne
And I’m Corinne Fay. I work on Burnt Toast and run @selltradeplus an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus sized clothing.
Virginia
It is time for your July Indulgence gospel. We have a whole bunch of your questions. I also have a really good hate mail to read and a really good butter.
Corinne
This is also a paywalled episode. That means to hear the whole thing, you’ll need to be a paid subscriber. It’s just $5 a month or $50 for the year.
Virginia
And a quick disclaimer as we are getting going here: We have a live studio audience today. My five year old is home because camp was closed because we have like crazy flooding in the Hudson Valley today. We are safe, we are just stuck at home. So she’s here. She is listening to Melon’s House Party which is a competing podcast she’s choosing to listen to right now.
Corinne
Probably superior.
Virginia
There’s a talking couch, we don’t have that. So we may have a few interruptions and/or background noise because sometimes the episodes are very funny.
Corinne
Oh, amazing.
Virginia
But Corinne, you need to talk to us about weightlifting.
Corinne
Yes! So last weekend was my weightlifting meet, which I’ve been periodically talking about for months and months and months, it feels like. it went really well. I got second in my weight class and it was fun. It was really fun.
I was so glad I had a coach guiding me through. And as a full adult approaching middle age if not fully middle aged, I just don’t have a lot of occasions in my life where I’m that nervous. I was like, Oh, I feel like I’m going to the airport. That’s what it feels like in my body right now.
Virginia
Oh, I get that. I get that for sure. The only thing I have is when I do public speaking because there are so many logistics. It’s not even the actually getting up and doing the thing, but it’s the what are you wearing? What time do you have to be there? Will you be on time? Will something go wrong?
Corinne
And what if I get up there and I throw up or something?
The way it works is you do these three lifts: Squat, bench press, and deadlift. They do them in flights. So, I had to get there at 8 but I wasn’t going to be even doing my first lift until like 11:30. So I just had a few hours of am I going to start crying or vomiting? I felt really weird.
Virginia
So what did you do? Did you sit and watch other people and feel nervous?
Corinne
Yeah, I watched other people just to try and prepare myself, psych myself up. And I sat and looked at my phone, you know, just the stuff you do to try to calm yourself down. But you start warming up at a certain point, and as soon as I started warming up I just started pouring sweat.
Virginia
I mean, that seems appropriate.
Corinne
Yeah. I mean, I was exerting myself. But also I was like, Oh, I’m really nervous and I’m just dumping sweat. I think if I had to do it again, I feel like I should have like, eaten more in that time.
Virginia
That makes sense.
Corinne
Because I was just so nervous. But it did end up just going really well even despite that.
Virginia
And you said “next time!”
Corinne
Yeah. Yeah, I would do it again.
Virginia
That was one of the most asked questions as we were gathering questions: How was the meet and will she do another one?
Corinne
Yeah, it was really fun. It was so cool to see other people doing the same thing. And there were definitely other fat bodies or larger bodies.
Virginia
That’s really powerful.
Corinne
And there was also a good audience. I had a bunch of friends come, my mom came.
Virginia
Oh, nice.
And you also had your fat pool party! I would like an update on that.
Corinne
Yes, we did fat swim! It was really fun. My main complaint about it is that it wasn’t long enough. I could only rent the pool for two hours and two hours felt like I was just starting to get to know the people that I didn’t know. Maybe next time I would plan something for after. But yeah, it was really fun. And also a good reminder that even if you live somewhere where you feel like it’s small and like you know everyone, there’s always people you don’t know.
Virginia
And there are people in your community who are probably so grateful that that happened and they could go to it. Do you know what I mean? We hear so often, how do I make that community? Or how do I find fat friends? This is a gift.
Oh and I was going to ask about your swimsuit!
Corinne
Okay, so that photo is actually not from fat swim. It was just from being fat at a pool with a friend.
Virginia
It was technically fat swim.
Corinne
Yes. It’s a picture of me and my friend, I’m wearing a bright green swimsuit and she’s wearing a pink swimsuit. And both of the swimsuits are from Good American.1
Virginia
Oh, wow.
Corinne
Which, I’m a little like sorry about the Kardashians, but they’re good.
Virginia
The colors are amazing!
Corinne
Good colors. They’re a knockoff of that Youswim brand that has that kind of crinkly material which is so nice. But I feel like Good American’s sizing is better.2 They also have a ton of styles. I’m wearing a cami style top. There’s a more bra style there. There are just tons. There’s a dress thing, which we’ll talk about later.
Virginia
Talk to me about level of boob support, because this is my constant struggle with swimwear.
Corinne
I posted that photo on Instagram and I got a lot of people replying being like, “wow, these bottoms actually look high waisted!” and the bottoms are really high waisted. But for me, the problem is usually the top not the bottom. There’s no support beyond just the thing. But I will say, my friend in the photo, Robyn A. Frank, amazing painter, has really large breasts and seems to be comfortably wearing it. I wouldn’t mind an extra inch or two of length.
Virginia
Always! Just another inch or two! Would it be that hard?
Corinne
I know. If you look at it, it almost like looks like I’m wearing a full like one piece. It almost overlaps. But I want the fabric to go under my boobs and not just over it.
Virginia
I always just want the neckline to come up a little bit higher. You don’t want every swimsuit to be a full cleavage experience.
Corinne
A little turtleneck!
Virginia
Or just like crewneck! I don’t know.
Corinne
Yeah. We have more swim questions coming up, so maybe this is the wrong time to talk about it, but the other thing I’ve been discovering this summer is that I really like a long-sleeve swimsuit. You don’t have to wear sunscreen!
Virginia
Well, we will get into that when we get to the swim questions. But I feel like you’re having such a fun summer with your meets and your pool parties.
Corinne
It has been a good summer. How’s your summer going?
Virginia
I’m a little bit of a puddle today because we dropped my nine year old off at sleepaway camp yesterday for the first time. She’s gone for two weeks. I’m so excited for her. She is ready. She’s jazzed. She’s gonna have a great time. And I feel like I have a celebrity crush. I keep checking the website where they upload photos to see if there are any photos. It’s like just lunchtime on her first day. There are no photos yet. I’m like maybe they will post some breakfast pictures?
Corinne
Oh my gosh, this is so cute.
Virginia
I’m stalking my own child on the internet.
Corinne
I have so many questions about this. How far away is she? Does she have friends there?
Virginia
Yes, it’s about an hour and a half away. It’s in the Catskills and we picked it because my friend
who writes , our daughters are really good friends. So her daughter is going and then another really good friend of theirs, whose mom is also our best friend. So we picked it to send the three girls together and they are in a cabin together.And we got there in time. They all got top bunks. I mean, you talked about your pre-meet anxiety, my anxiety about whether we would realize this vision of three top bunks in the cabin. You don’t even know. Like the parent text threads about what time we should leave and do we have time to stop for lunch?
Corinne
Oh my gosh.
Virginia
Anyway, they all got top bunks. And I think they’re going to have a good time. But yeah, it’s big for me to have her be away for two weeks. But then fortunately, my younger child’s camp was closed today. And I have her right here in the room with me. So I am still very much with with a child.
Alright, we’re going to do some questions.
Corinne
So here’s the first question.
I'd love some thoughts on the relationship between diet culture and table manners. My kids are 6 and 9 and my partner really struggles with mouth noises (just to set the... table for you) and I feel like table manners are still a major pain point at dinner time. I don't care so much about table manners in a formal sense because who among us knows what fork to use at a fancy restaurant. I mean issues more like kids eating so fast or so loud/smacky, scraping teeth on forks and spoons, etc. Also, despite our efforts to include them in meal planning, present a range of safe options at the table, my oldest will still grumble about the meal we've made, roll eyes, or act generally put out if it isn't one of the (VERY FEW) acceptable meals for her. Will this ever end?
Virginia
No. It won’t ever end. Well, it will end with all of our deaths.
Corinne
Wow, really going there. Just to remind everyone out there, everything will end at some point.
Virginia
There is a sweet release. But I mean, bottom line, my kids are the same ages, almost six and almost ten. I’m right there with you. It has not ended for me yet. We are working through things like no feet on the table. We are working through things like sitting in your chair while chewing. The eating so fast, the mess, the scraping, all of this. We discovered the other day that we can make weird noises with straws. Like, it’s just never ending.
Melinda has a great piece that she wrote about why table manners are not really age appropriate for kids a lot of the time. Of course, you are working towards this goal and you are modeling table manners yourself, hopefully. But we have to adjust some expectations about what what we will get out of them in terms of behavior at the table.
She did a lot of really interesting reporting. A lot of it is that sitting at the dinner table requires a fair bit of core strengths and motor planning and coordination. If you think about it, just sitting upright in a chair and like moving your fork around and your plate around, and kids, especially at dinner, later in the day, they’re tired, they just don’t have it together in terms of coordinated physical movements at that point in the day. And when you think about how many adults would rather eat on their couch in front of the TV, I think that’s a relatable concept. I also lack core strength by 7pm. So that’s one big piece of it.
I think the other big piece is if there is anxiety over what’s for dinner or that’s feeling high pressure in any way, then like you’re going to see the behavior, the manners, kind of go out the window as they’re responding to that. So it’s a good opportunity to check the other dynamics about what’s happening. But mostly, it’s just awful. And I’m sorry. And I’m there with you. That’s what I’ve got.
Corinne
Yeah, I was trying to think of strategies that parents could use to steel themselves for, like how annoying it is. Like, is it more annoying to you because you’re really tired and hungry?
Virginia
Yeah, absolutely.
Corinne
Could you have a snack or wear ear plugs? Is that so awful?
Virginia
I think those are both great ideas. I would also say, if there’s an adult who’s more triggered by the visual of how the kids eat, have that person not sit facing the children. Rethink your seating. Because what often happens is the parents start micromanaging how the kid is eating and then that just makes it all worse, right? You’re fussing at them to put their cup here or keeping syrup on the plate is a big one, all of this stuff. Finding ways to rearrange your seating a little bit, so you’re not having to look at it, is helpful.
I think parents really overestimate how long kids will sit at the table. I think it’s really normal for kids until they’re pretty old, unless they are very food motivated children and it’s like their favorite meal, to not want to spend that long at dinner. A 15 minute meal is quite an accomplishment, honestly. So that can help. And we have a no feet on the table rule. Like that seems fine. I think that’s a reasonable boundary have.
Corinne
And when that comes up, you’re just reminding everyone that this rule exists.
Virginia
Just remind everyone that we have to take our feet off the table. But just know that you are going to be saying it forever.
It’s also because some of the customs don’t make any sense to kids, right? You’re trying to teach them this whole language that they don’t know. They don’t know why it bothers people. Kids aren’t grossed out by their own feet. So they don’t understand why that would be a problem. It is this very abstract thing you’re trying to explain. That’s all I got. It’s terrible.
I will read the next question.
Yesterday my son (9) asked for Honey Nut Cheerios, but I generally buy regular Cheerios. My husband told him to add honey to his cereal and he thought that was pretty great. I did too. But the next day he asked why we can't just buy Honey Nut Cheerios. He said that having honey with cereal was the same as just buying Honey Nut Cheerios. I didn't have a good answer for him. I told him the truth is that I don't buy sugar cereals because my parents didn't buy sugar cereals except for treats. If I'm being honest, I also have in my head that starting off the day with too much sugar isn't good and will make him "crash" at school/ camp. When we are on vacation I let him choose any cereal he wants to keep at the grandparents' house, probably creating a scarcity situation for him. I bake and we have plenty of sugar items in the house, but somehow this is a food rule I can't get rid of and not sure if I should, because it seems so unhealthy. Which I know is diet culture, but just can't get past it. How do I set food limits with my son when I can't even defend them!?! Is it ever ok to limit or restrict the types of food allowed?
Corinne
Well. Your son makes a pretty good point.
