Oct 20, 2022Liked by Corinne Fay, Virginia Sole-Smith
Love hearing from Virginia and Corinne, as always!
I did want to add that cold sensitivity is also a symptom of an eating disorder. As part of the body's protective mechanisms that kick in when malnourished, the metabolism down-regulates and the body's core temperature drops. That, combined with the decrease in body fat which serves as insulation, can make people feel very cold even in otherwise moderate temperatures.
Of course, cold sensitivity does not in itself a diagnosis make. But I always think it's important to consider the possibility that there are more folks than we know who are suffering complications of this dangerous medical condition who, unfortunately, hide in plain site due to cultural anti-fat bias.
One final note: as I'm sure most folks here already know, it's not just thin people who can suffer from cold sensitivity due to an eating disorder, as the NYT Magazine's recent article, "You Don't Look Anorexic" described. This particular symptom is one element of a condition that can affect people of all sizes!
I really enjoy the discussion about body temperature. I feel like there's the "delicate cold thin flower" stereotype and the "fat red sweaty beast" stereotype. I'm always warm and I sweat a lot. (I'm also fat.) I hate it when people ask me about it. I get that it's concerning seeing someone with sweat dripping down there face from a walk through the CVS, but please, leave me alone. I've taken to carrying handkerchiefs, and I made sure my doctor put a note in my chart that my sweating is normal so if I end up in the ER, they don't think I'm drug seeking (sweating from withdrawal). I had that happen when I went to the ER for an infection in my elbow. The doctor asked my husband (not me) why I was sweating so much and if it was normal. She was really judgy about it. I was like "ma'am, I need an antibiotic. I've said nothing about pain. Could you please focus?"
I agree about coats being uncomfortable and if I wear them inside a place where I don't plan on taking it off, I end up getting too warm. I've given up on most hats, scarves, gloves, heavy coats, even though I live in Wisconsin. It's a bummer that everyone seems to think those things and thick socks and heavy sweaters are the greatest gifts.
One last comment: you mentioned loving your body for what it can do, not what it looks like. As a person with a mobility disability and a degenerative genetic condition, that saying never sat right with me because there are a lot of things my body can't do and that society judges me for as well. What I DO appreciate it that you both came around to things like being able to lay down or enjoy things like tactile pleasures. I had a therapist who told me to even think about things like your internal organs working or parts of your body that don't hurt, even if it's just your big toe. Ragen Chastain has some good thoughts about how "joyful movement" is not possible for everyone, and I love her explanations on that. I'm lucky to have a weight neutral doctor who believes in bodies just being--they're not good or bad, they don't need to be worshipped or objectified. They're like a tree in your yard. The tree is there, sometimes you notice it, most of the time you don't, but you don't stop each day and look at the tree to tell it how pretty it is and how much you love the pattern of its leaves or whatever.
Anyway, my two cents. Thank you again for your great content! I don't have kids, but I find a lot of your stuff still applicable or just a fascinating look into the worlds of people who do have kids. 🙂
I too am a hot person, I am the first to turn down the air and the last to grab a coat. And I live in Florida so it gets interesting. I recall the late 90's, that terrible time in diet culture, when everyone was expected to be Jennifer Love Hewitt pulling her sweaters down over her wee fingers because she was so delicate and cold and it just triggers the fuck out of me. Somewhere inside I've internalized that "cold = feminine and appealing" and "hot = gross." Which of course, is totally fucked up.
Oct 20, 2022Liked by Corinne Fay, Virginia Sole-Smith
Ok, so question one, as I've mentioned, my mom is someone who lost a lot of weight at one point, and she says she is absolutely colder now, and she regrets all the years she rolled her eyes at a thinner family friend who we always had to turn up the heat when she came over. Although she personally still does not turn up the heat because she keeps it low for environmental reasons.
I am so with you on raincoats. I hate them. I use umbrellas but given the choice of a raincoat I would rather get wet. It's funny, my mother-in-law will not use umbrellas and wears raincoats kind of no matter how hot it is and she'll be taking my kid out in the summer and want to know where his raincoat is and I'm like ... yeah, he's not going to be willing to put that on at all. Although he does have a raincoat that I put on him in fall and spring where relevant.
Re Halloween, oy. I do not do costumes for myself. If I was going to, I'd just get my old red cape from my mother's house, which I wore as a winter coat for a lot of my teens, and I'd be Little Red Riding Hood, done. But we are struggling with moths and I'm not bringing an extra wool thing into the house and I just don't care that much. This year my kid wanted a Legend of Zelda costume and we found this amazing Yiga clan one on Etsy and only *after* I ordered it I saw that it was not going to be here by Halloween, so I guess he's getting that for Christmas, and instead we got a bokoblin mask and bat, which did arrive, and he loves it. I got him some red pajamas to wear with it and already he has insisted on holding not one but two performances of a "bokoblin show" for our neighbors, where he runs around waving his bat and occasionally stops to say things like "Bokoblins could use a lot more brains and a little more courage," and today for school picture day he wanted to wear his costume without the mask and we had to point out that was just red pajamas. So anyway, that's going well.
We let him eat as much Halloween candy as he wants, just not too much chocolate right at bedtime because caffeine. But he loses interest in it because his treat of choice is lemon italian ice, so there's still a bunch of Halloween candy from last year sitting in a bag in his bedroom. And yes, I do start occasionally pilfering pieces once it's clear he's had everything he actually wants. So everything that's left from last year at this point is the stuff I don't want/can't eat anyway.
I also think a lot about the thin person wearing a size XL and talking about how they wanted it to be huge on them. And I’m just like well, that’s just my minimum size so no I’m not swimming in fabric in that size like you are, but haha yes sooo funny how big it is on you!
Oct 20, 2022Liked by Corinne Fay, Virginia Sole-Smith
I have so many thoughts on this podcast that I finally upgraded to a paid subscription!
I just hit menopause and it's wild how my internal thermostat changed in the last 4 years. Being warm all the time was my perimenopause superpower. I didn't get many actual hot flashes, but I was just really warm all the time, even in mid-winter in upstate NY. Then, just like that, my superpower went away a few weeks ago, right before I hit my official menopause. Going to the ice hotel in Montreal no longer sounds as appealing as it did two years ago.
Bodies are fascinating. My parents are old and can't deal with the cold at all now, although they were fine with it when they were younger. My mom also complains mightily when the temperature is above 80F, so it's fortunate that they live in the Bay Area. Meanwhile, when I'd visit them in the winter, I'd be running around in lightweight clothing because to me it felt like the equivalent of the first sunny day above freezing when all the college students wear shorts and t-shirts even though it's actually 40F.
Getting to this one late but I agree about Halloween! I feel like it gets more popular with adults each year and it becomes increasingly awkward to tell people that I’m not dressing up and I don’t have plans. To be honest, I didn’t like it as a kid either and I haven’t dressed up since I was 10. I never liked having to think of a costume and I didn’t like trick or treating (was usually cold) and I always got subpar candy anyway (sorry to whoppers but it’s a no from me).
I was wondering about the book title as well so thanks for giving us some insider intel! I hadn’t thought about how the title might be interpreted by other members of the household (including the kids). It reminds me of when I started really getting into the anti-diet world in early college and reading SO many books. My roommate accused me one day of leaving them around the apartment to send some passive aggressive message to her which had never crossed my mind in the slightest.
Win for this week! Every year in October my college features a Walktober program which is free for alums(me) students and faculty. Fitness not weight focused, but the program they buy has Tips via e-mail a few times a week. These have only featured photos of able persons and usually very fit men working out. I wrote letters to fellow alums and the College to complain. My college is a women’s college that values diversity so WHY!!!?? I did get a response that said they would give the feedback to the program providers. WHY did they not notice this before??? Thank you for making me aware of these not so hidden anti-fat, sexist and ableist messages!
I’m seeing this a year later from the sugar guide! But I am a very hot fat person and am constantly complaining at my grandpa’s house about how miserable I am. He’s been on blood thinners for 30 years and I get that he’s cold but he keeps his house on 80 degrees in the winter. I turned it down to 75 a couple years ago at Christmas dinner and he thought his heat was broken! When I was pregnant it was even worse, I love to tell the story of going to my grandmas Southern Baptist church at Thanksgiving and hearing about the rapture and hellfire and thinking is the hellfire coming now?! Bc I was sweating in my short sleeves and miniskirt and it was 45 degrees outside. I was about the same size pregnant as I am now but I was so much hotter. I don’t recall being colder during my time of having an ED but I have experienced the feeling of having it tougher to warm back up after getting chilled- mostly in HS when I wasn’t dieting but was smaller.
Jumping into the hot/cold discussion: I've nearly always been the hot & sweaty one in the room unless it's below 60 degrees, and our hot & humid NY summers make me crazy. But many years ago I was on a starvation diet and lost a lot of weight in a very short time. I could NOT get warm during that time period. I used to go outside on a 90 degree day and lie in the sun, frying my Scandinavian ancestral skin and hoping the heat would somehow penetrate my bones and keep me warm for a few hours. I had no idea at the time that the weight loss might have had something to do with it, I just figured it was how thin people lived. But surprise, once my weight went back to pre-diet "normal," I wasn't cold anymore.
Also want to mention the coat issue. I'm not sure if it's because I'm getting older, but when we have a few -30 windchill days here, I find I really need a good, warm winter coat. And I am constantly frustrated trying to find one in plus sizes. So many places I see online sell these lightweight things, or sweaters disguised as coats, etc. And honestly, I feel like even straight size coats are not constructed to be warm enough for what a northern winter throws at us. Just more of the fashion industry wanting women to look a certain way, even if they freeze to death.
I feel like there needs to be a roll call for anyone who was an always cold teenaged girl with an always warm perimenopausal mom, or vice versa, or both. My BFF and I both went though this as teenagers
Hi Virginia! Woke up this morning to find Burnt Toast no longer on Spotify? Unsure if it's just a glitch on my end or if anyone else is having this trouble as well? Searched your name, searched Burnt Toast and it's gone! Thanks for any help!
Love hearing from Virginia and Corinne, as always!
I did want to add that cold sensitivity is also a symptom of an eating disorder. As part of the body's protective mechanisms that kick in when malnourished, the metabolism down-regulates and the body's core temperature drops. That, combined with the decrease in body fat which serves as insulation, can make people feel very cold even in otherwise moderate temperatures.
Of course, cold sensitivity does not in itself a diagnosis make. But I always think it's important to consider the possibility that there are more folks than we know who are suffering complications of this dangerous medical condition who, unfortunately, hide in plain site due to cultural anti-fat bias.
One final note: as I'm sure most folks here already know, it's not just thin people who can suffer from cold sensitivity due to an eating disorder, as the NYT Magazine's recent article, "You Don't Look Anorexic" described. This particular symptom is one element of a condition that can affect people of all sizes!
I really enjoy the discussion about body temperature. I feel like there's the "delicate cold thin flower" stereotype and the "fat red sweaty beast" stereotype. I'm always warm and I sweat a lot. (I'm also fat.) I hate it when people ask me about it. I get that it's concerning seeing someone with sweat dripping down there face from a walk through the CVS, but please, leave me alone. I've taken to carrying handkerchiefs, and I made sure my doctor put a note in my chart that my sweating is normal so if I end up in the ER, they don't think I'm drug seeking (sweating from withdrawal). I had that happen when I went to the ER for an infection in my elbow. The doctor asked my husband (not me) why I was sweating so much and if it was normal. She was really judgy about it. I was like "ma'am, I need an antibiotic. I've said nothing about pain. Could you please focus?"
I agree about coats being uncomfortable and if I wear them inside a place where I don't plan on taking it off, I end up getting too warm. I've given up on most hats, scarves, gloves, heavy coats, even though I live in Wisconsin. It's a bummer that everyone seems to think those things and thick socks and heavy sweaters are the greatest gifts.
One last comment: you mentioned loving your body for what it can do, not what it looks like. As a person with a mobility disability and a degenerative genetic condition, that saying never sat right with me because there are a lot of things my body can't do and that society judges me for as well. What I DO appreciate it that you both came around to things like being able to lay down or enjoy things like tactile pleasures. I had a therapist who told me to even think about things like your internal organs working or parts of your body that don't hurt, even if it's just your big toe. Ragen Chastain has some good thoughts about how "joyful movement" is not possible for everyone, and I love her explanations on that. I'm lucky to have a weight neutral doctor who believes in bodies just being--they're not good or bad, they don't need to be worshipped or objectified. They're like a tree in your yard. The tree is there, sometimes you notice it, most of the time you don't, but you don't stop each day and look at the tree to tell it how pretty it is and how much you love the pattern of its leaves or whatever.
Anyway, my two cents. Thank you again for your great content! I don't have kids, but I find a lot of your stuff still applicable or just a fascinating look into the worlds of people who do have kids. 🙂
I too am a hot person, I am the first to turn down the air and the last to grab a coat. And I live in Florida so it gets interesting. I recall the late 90's, that terrible time in diet culture, when everyone was expected to be Jennifer Love Hewitt pulling her sweaters down over her wee fingers because she was so delicate and cold and it just triggers the fuck out of me. Somewhere inside I've internalized that "cold = feminine and appealing" and "hot = gross." Which of course, is totally fucked up.
Ok, so question one, as I've mentioned, my mom is someone who lost a lot of weight at one point, and she says she is absolutely colder now, and she regrets all the years she rolled her eyes at a thinner family friend who we always had to turn up the heat when she came over. Although she personally still does not turn up the heat because she keeps it low for environmental reasons.
I am so with you on raincoats. I hate them. I use umbrellas but given the choice of a raincoat I would rather get wet. It's funny, my mother-in-law will not use umbrellas and wears raincoats kind of no matter how hot it is and she'll be taking my kid out in the summer and want to know where his raincoat is and I'm like ... yeah, he's not going to be willing to put that on at all. Although he does have a raincoat that I put on him in fall and spring where relevant.
Re Halloween, oy. I do not do costumes for myself. If I was going to, I'd just get my old red cape from my mother's house, which I wore as a winter coat for a lot of my teens, and I'd be Little Red Riding Hood, done. But we are struggling with moths and I'm not bringing an extra wool thing into the house and I just don't care that much. This year my kid wanted a Legend of Zelda costume and we found this amazing Yiga clan one on Etsy and only *after* I ordered it I saw that it was not going to be here by Halloween, so I guess he's getting that for Christmas, and instead we got a bokoblin mask and bat, which did arrive, and he loves it. I got him some red pajamas to wear with it and already he has insisted on holding not one but two performances of a "bokoblin show" for our neighbors, where he runs around waving his bat and occasionally stops to say things like "Bokoblins could use a lot more brains and a little more courage," and today for school picture day he wanted to wear his costume without the mask and we had to point out that was just red pajamas. So anyway, that's going well.
We let him eat as much Halloween candy as he wants, just not too much chocolate right at bedtime because caffeine. But he loses interest in it because his treat of choice is lemon italian ice, so there's still a bunch of Halloween candy from last year sitting in a bag in his bedroom. And yes, I do start occasionally pilfering pieces once it's clear he's had everything he actually wants. So everything that's left from last year at this point is the stuff I don't want/can't eat anyway.
I also think a lot about the thin person wearing a size XL and talking about how they wanted it to be huge on them. And I’m just like well, that’s just my minimum size so no I’m not swimming in fabric in that size like you are, but haha yes sooo funny how big it is on you!
I have so many thoughts on this podcast that I finally upgraded to a paid subscription!
I just hit menopause and it's wild how my internal thermostat changed in the last 4 years. Being warm all the time was my perimenopause superpower. I didn't get many actual hot flashes, but I was just really warm all the time, even in mid-winter in upstate NY. Then, just like that, my superpower went away a few weeks ago, right before I hit my official menopause. Going to the ice hotel in Montreal no longer sounds as appealing as it did two years ago.
Bodies are fascinating. My parents are old and can't deal with the cold at all now, although they were fine with it when they were younger. My mom also complains mightily when the temperature is above 80F, so it's fortunate that they live in the Bay Area. Meanwhile, when I'd visit them in the winter, I'd be running around in lightweight clothing because to me it felt like the equivalent of the first sunny day above freezing when all the college students wear shorts and t-shirts even though it's actually 40F.
Getting to this one late but I agree about Halloween! I feel like it gets more popular with adults each year and it becomes increasingly awkward to tell people that I’m not dressing up and I don’t have plans. To be honest, I didn’t like it as a kid either and I haven’t dressed up since I was 10. I never liked having to think of a costume and I didn’t like trick or treating (was usually cold) and I always got subpar candy anyway (sorry to whoppers but it’s a no from me).
I was wondering about the book title as well so thanks for giving us some insider intel! I hadn’t thought about how the title might be interpreted by other members of the household (including the kids). It reminds me of when I started really getting into the anti-diet world in early college and reading SO many books. My roommate accused me one day of leaving them around the apartment to send some passive aggressive message to her which had never crossed my mind in the slightest.
Thank you Virginia and Corinne!
Win for this week! Every year in October my college features a Walktober program which is free for alums(me) students and faculty. Fitness not weight focused, but the program they buy has Tips via e-mail a few times a week. These have only featured photos of able persons and usually very fit men working out. I wrote letters to fellow alums and the College to complain. My college is a women’s college that values diversity so WHY!!!?? I did get a response that said they would give the feedback to the program providers. WHY did they not notice this before??? Thank you for making me aware of these not so hidden anti-fat, sexist and ableist messages!
I’m seeing this a year later from the sugar guide! But I am a very hot fat person and am constantly complaining at my grandpa’s house about how miserable I am. He’s been on blood thinners for 30 years and I get that he’s cold but he keeps his house on 80 degrees in the winter. I turned it down to 75 a couple years ago at Christmas dinner and he thought his heat was broken! When I was pregnant it was even worse, I love to tell the story of going to my grandmas Southern Baptist church at Thanksgiving and hearing about the rapture and hellfire and thinking is the hellfire coming now?! Bc I was sweating in my short sleeves and miniskirt and it was 45 degrees outside. I was about the same size pregnant as I am now but I was so much hotter. I don’t recall being colder during my time of having an ED but I have experienced the feeling of having it tougher to warm back up after getting chilled- mostly in HS when I wasn’t dieting but was smaller.
Jumping into the hot/cold discussion: I've nearly always been the hot & sweaty one in the room unless it's below 60 degrees, and our hot & humid NY summers make me crazy. But many years ago I was on a starvation diet and lost a lot of weight in a very short time. I could NOT get warm during that time period. I used to go outside on a 90 degree day and lie in the sun, frying my Scandinavian ancestral skin and hoping the heat would somehow penetrate my bones and keep me warm for a few hours. I had no idea at the time that the weight loss might have had something to do with it, I just figured it was how thin people lived. But surprise, once my weight went back to pre-diet "normal," I wasn't cold anymore.
Also want to mention the coat issue. I'm not sure if it's because I'm getting older, but when we have a few -30 windchill days here, I find I really need a good, warm winter coat. And I am constantly frustrated trying to find one in plus sizes. So many places I see online sell these lightweight things, or sweaters disguised as coats, etc. And honestly, I feel like even straight size coats are not constructed to be warm enough for what a northern winter throws at us. Just more of the fashion industry wanting women to look a certain way, even if they freeze to death.
I feel like there needs to be a roll call for anyone who was an always cold teenaged girl with an always warm perimenopausal mom, or vice versa, or both. My BFF and I both went though this as teenagers
Hi Virginia! Woke up this morning to find Burnt Toast no longer on Spotify? Unsure if it's just a glitch on my end or if anyone else is having this trouble as well? Searched your name, searched Burnt Toast and it's gone! Thanks for any help!