You're listening to Burnt Toast. I'm Virginia Sole-Smith and I also write the Burnt Toast newsletter.
Today is another Ask Me Anything episode with Corinne Fay! She does @SellTradePlus on Instagram and works with me here on Burnt Toast. We get into working through fatphobia and treats with kids. We also talk about building fat community, which I love. And we talk a lot about Halloween costumes and we may have just alienated you all with our stance on Halloween.
Episode 66 Transcript
Virginia
I’m excited we’re doing this. I’m opening a seltzer.
Corinne
I also have seltzer.
Virginia
I’m opening the good seltzer.
Corinne
Essential.
Virginia
Okay. I’m ready. We’re going to answer some questions. We’re going to talk about Halloween. We’re going to talk about some good stuff.
Corinne
Okay. I’m gonna ask you the first one.
I’d love for you to talk about the intersection between diet culture and being freezing. The temp where live has dropped below 80 finally, and suddenly all of these very thin moms are super bundled up at drop off. Meanwhile, I’m sweating still and shedding all my layers. Feels like one of those weird things where it’s expected that women are small and freezing. Is this a thing? Just me being self conscious about still being sweaty in October?
Virginia
I think it’s a thing. Don’t you think it’s a thing?
Corinne
I don’t know. I was confused by this question.
Virginia
I have often noticed that I will not be wearing a coat and my skinny friends will be in scarves and very bundled.
Corinne
I definitely am hot. I definitely am hot and sweaty.
Virginia
All the time, year round. And maybe because you don’t live in a cold climate you don’t see this juxtaposition? But I know what she’s talking about. I mean, I could rant for several minutes about my hatred of coats, particularly coats and cars together. It’s the worst because you just feel like bunched up and stuffed into this thing.
Corinne
Yeah, like your shoulder mobility.
Virginia
Also I have garage privilege. We have an attached garage to our house where I spend most of my life because my office is above it. So when I leave my house I don’t have to put a coat on because I’m going to walk into my attached garage. And so it takes until bitter cold here, like February, before I actually wear a coat. Do you know what I mean? I live in suburbia and so I’m driving everywhere and I get in my car without a coat and then I get to the grocery store and I just run in. Like, do I need a scarf and a cute hat to walk across a grocery store parking lot? I don’t. But I definitely notice this and people will always be like, “Aren’t you cold?” And I’m like, “No, I’m fine.” I have padding.
Corinne
“No, I’m not cold, I’m fat!”
Virginia
Thank you.
Corinne
It’s funny because I actually love coats. But I don’t get to wear them very often. I like a light coat. But I do understand what you’re saying about wearing them in the car.
Virginia
I was just fighting with a raincoat earlier today, picking my kid up, because it’s pouring rain and I was like, “Oh, I guess I need to wear a raincoat.” And I got in the car and I was like, “I am being suffocated!”
Corinne
Yeah. That’s not a good feeling. Raincoats in particular just make me sweat.
Virginia
Because you’re wearing a garbage bag! Even if it’s a cute garbage bag, it just is.
Corinne
Are people expecting women to be small and freezing?
Virginia
Well, we know they’re expecting women to be small. I think there’s some cheesy romcom tropes around this, don’t you think? Like, “Oh, she’s wearing his big sweater.”
Corinne
I feel like people are expecting fat people to be hot and sweaty. And I am living that.
Virginia
I am meeting their expectations. I guess I would just say, be comfortable? I mean, who cares? Let those ladies have their sweaters and their scarves. We’ll get there.
Corinne
Yeah, it definitely seems better to just be honest about it than to try and bundle yourself and make yourself uncomfortable.
Virginia
On the flip side, I will say I have one thin friend who runs very, very cold. Thats just her journey and she has said that people will comment on that.
Corinne
In conclusion: Stop commenting on what people are doing with their bodies.
Virginia
All right. I’ll read the next question. I think this is from a teacher.
My colleagues constantly called fat children lazy. What to say? It’s obviously fatphobic. I usually challenge them about the individual child. Also, do they think I’m lazy, too? Hard to trust now.
It was sort of truncated because she put it in an Instagram question box. But yeah, that sounds awful. Awful.
Corinne
My first question is what profession is this? Because that’s so sad.
Virginia
Why are these people allowed to work near children? I’m guessing it’s either a teacher or some kind of health care provider.
Corinne
Yeah, I was guessing health care. Just sad to imagine that people that take care of kids are calling them lazy.
Virginia
I think it’s great to challenge them about the individual child. I also think is there a way to say something thing like, “I’ve been really trying to unlearn some of those stereotypes.” Or, “I think it’s such a bummer that we are so hard on fat kids.” You’re not specifically calling out your colleague for saying the terrible thing, but you’re talking about the fatphobia. I always like to bring it to the larger system.
Corinne
My suggestion was, if someone says like, “Oh, that kid’s lazy,” ask some follow up questions. Like, “Oh, what makes you say that? I’m so curious why you think that?”
Virginia
You’re kind of putting them a little on the spot, not in an aggressive way. And then if they have to really spell it out, hopefully they hear themselves.
Corinne
I think you could also continue that into the more broad thing and just say, “Why are we calling people lazy? It’s sort of mean.”
Virginia
This is reminding me, I just finished KC Davis’s book, How to Keep House While Drowning.
Corinne
I really want to read that.
Virginia
It’s so good. I’m obsessed with KC. She talks about how lazy doesn’t exist. I’m just thinking this might be a good read for this person because she’s not talking about it in the context of weight. She’s talking about it in the context of how clean your house is and if you’re neurodivergent, how thats challenging. But it could be great to just be like, “I was just reading this book and lazy is a social construct.” People being lazy need to rest. Resting is valid.
Corinne
I think you’re right. It makes sense maybe a teacher would be calling someone lazy because you’re supposed to be ‘hardworking’ in school. But I don’t know, I think calling someone lazy is mean. So just don’t do it, whether they’re fat or not.
Virginia
Yeah, it’s a really unhelpful term. It’s super ableist and super fatphobic.
Corinne
It’s trying to shame someone into doing something that they maybe don’t want to do.
Virginia
Which is always a successful strategy. We’re really sorry you have to deal with that. It sounds terrible. And in terms of can you trust your colleagues, I think that’s valid, to feel like you can’t trust them. I don’t know how safe you would feel doing this because it does not sound like a super supportive environment, so consider this part very optional, but you could also say: “That does not feel safe for me as a fat person to hear you say that.” I think that would make them deeply uncomfortable and hopefully they’d shut the fuck up. But I throw that out there with all the caveats of, that may not feel like an option.
Corinne
I also feel like we should probably mention that lazy can also be a very racialized term. That could also be playing a part. So let’s not call anyone lazy.
Okay.
Recommendations on finding and building fat community as a fat person unpacking their diet culture BS?
Virginia
I feel like you should answer this first because you have been building selltradeplus as a wonderful, fat-positive community.
Corinne
I think it’s kind of that question of how to make friends as an adult. And I guess my first answer is: Online.
Virginia
It is often the safe starting point, right? You don’t have to leave your house or put on pants.
Corinne
And I think also people can be a little more upfront about how they feel about things online in a way that… You know, sometimes you meet someone in person and you like them and then you realize like, we disagree about a lot of things.
Virginia
I shared a reel the other day from @LordTroy being like, “I don’t trust it when I see a group of friends and they’re all thin.” (Sorry, we can’t find the specific reel anymore but everything @lordtroy posts is gold.)
Corinne
Oh, I saw that.
Virginia
I was like, YES.
So obviously there’s Burnt Toast, where I think we are building a great community that is quite size diverse, according to our last reader survey. So, I would not say we are a specifically fat community, but there’s certainly a lot of fat folks centered in the community. And I think that’s been really lovely.
In terms of in-person community, really, my only experience with it is this Body Liberation Hiking Club I keep talking about. Alexa, who is a teacher here in the Hudson Valley, just decided that she wanted to build fat community and started this hiking group and made a Facebook and an Instagram and started putting up schedules for hikes. And people go on the hikes, it’s so awesome. I mean, I’ve only been on one hike, but I aspire to go on more.
It made me realize I had never hiked without—I’m married to a thin guy, and I’d never hiked with other fat people! And I was like, I’ve been doing it all wrong. It’s so much nicer. Just not having any of that noise of comparison or anything and just all being really supportive and safe together.
So, I guess, look for a group like that. And if there’s not one, start one! It doesn’t have to be hiking either. Obviously hiking has a little built-in ableism because not everyone can hike, but it could be a book club? I think book clubs are great. Someone told me about starting an articles club, because reading books takes too much time. And I was like, I love it.
Corinne
Wow, that’s a great idea! Oh, Pool Party.
Virginia
Pool party, always always.
Corinne
I like the suggestion of starting something if you can’t find something in your area, because there are definitely fat people everywhere who probably want other fat friends.
Virginia
Yes, I don’t know if you’ve heard the talk about this epidemic…? You can find us. Although, I will just say as an introvert, starting an in-person thing sounds scary. I would be so anxious that no one would come and I would feel bad. So maybe if you have like one friend, even if they’re not fat, but they’re just supportive that you can like anchor it with, you know?
Corinne
From SellTradePlus, there have also been a few groups of people meeting up that met on SellTradePlus. So you could come to SellTradePlus and see if there’s people in your area. There’s now a Philadelphia Clothes Swap that’s very big and happening at the end of October. So, if you’re in Pennsylvania, you could go to that.
Virginia
That’s awesome. I fantasize about Burnt Toast meet ups! My hope is when the book comes out, maybe book events can be a useful starting point for that.
Corinne
Okay, next question.
If your eyes are wide open to diet culture and fatphobia, but you still hate your body, how do you move forward? For example, I know why I find being bigger triggering, but that doesn’t stop me wanting to be smaller. How do you unwire that?
Virginia
I do think it’s important to know that you can have your eyes wide open to these things, you can be a good advocate working to dismantle fatphobia, and you can still be in your own personal struggle. Like, you do not have to have the shit worked out in order to be a good ally or advocate or any of that. So, cutting yourself some slack here and giving yourself permission to be struggling might be helpful. It can often be really beneficial to work with a therapist, a good anti-diet, fat-positive therapist. I can link again to Christy Harrison’s directory for finding folks. What are your thoughts?
Corinne
You can’t completely unwire this without solving fatphobia on a global level. It’s just the air we’re breathing. Everything around you is telling you that you should hate being bigger. And, it’s uncomfortable! It can be very uncomfortable to be in a body that doesn’t fit places or breaks chairs or whatever. So, that’s valid.
That said, my recommendation would probably be to try and find some stuff that you could do where you’re enjoying just being in your body. Whether that’s some type of exercise or swimming or meditating or yoga, or like taking pictures of yourself and looking at them without feeling disgusted or just some way to appreciate what your body can do for you, even if it’s not like the body that society tells you you should have or should want.
Virginia
That’s so smart. And yeah, appreciating your body for what it does versus how it looks, like releasing yourself from the expectation. I just described 10 years of therapy for a lot of us.
But at least noticing. I think it can be good just to notice. I’ve talked about this before, when I have wardrobe anxiety about things not fitting or it doesn’t look right, when I take a minute to say, “Wait, what else is going on?” It is always not about the clothes. It is always that I’m cranky and hormonal or because I have to see people in the world and my social anxiety kicked in or I’m stressed about work and taking it out on pants.
I think it’s good you’re noticing that you’re getting triggered because I think for a long time people stay stuck in this perpetual triggered state that feels like normal. You’re at least like, Oh, I’m getting triggered and now I’m having these thoughts that don’t align with my values. That’s a useful place to be.
Corinne
Even if being in a bigger body doesn’t allow you to do certain things like run marathons, maybe you can still like smell flowers or like feel the rain on your skin and now I’m singing a cheesy song.
Virginia
Got a little Julie Andrews there, but that’s fine.
But no, you’re right. Finding ways to enjoy the tactile experience of your body. Like cozy blankets. If you’re not too hot.
Corinne
Laying on the couch. Having a body allows you to lay on the couch which is fun.
Virginia
It’s so great! Let your dog sit on you, it’s awesome. Finding ways to appreciate that or just noticing that. Maybe while you’re noticing being triggered, also noticing positive sensations in your body could be useful.
Corinne
We solved fatphobia on a global level.
Virginia
We did. We broke down a lot of systemic bullshit.
Corinne
Okay, here’s the next question.
We’re trying to be an Ellyn Satter/DOR house and avoid labeling any food as “treats” so as to present food more neutrally. In our own unlearning, sometimes this goes better than others. But we’ve been doing the Ellyn Satter deal for his whole life, four and a half years now, yet he regularly asks us for “treats” or why there isn’t a “treat” at every meal or snack. We bake often and we’ll do snacks where the treat is on the menu. And he gets unlimited access to those things. We try to do it regularly. But still his talk of treats persists, he goes to daycare and gets a heavy dose of this kind of messaging there even if implicitly. Ideas?
Virginia
Okay, so this is fascinating because it makes me realize something that I think we’re doing wrong when we talk about keeping foods neutral. I do think it’s important to avoid labeling foods as junk or bad foods or trash, but I think also some foods are treats and that’s okay. I think it’s okay to say that something is a treat. Maybe a treat is something you eat daily and maybe I have a treat at most meals, you know? It doesn’t mean it’s something I can’t have. We could reclaim the word treat.
He maybe is just asking for foods that feel fun to him to eat. It’s okay that he’s noticing that some foods are more fun to eat than other foods. He’s figuring out preferences. And people have different ideas of treats. I was just hanging out with a bunch of girlfriends this weekend, and I made brownies because me and one friend really wanted brownies, but the other two just wanted cheese. And like I love cheese, too, but that’s not dessert to me. But they were like no, that is our dessert. And like, that’s a valid life choice to feel that cheese is your dessert, but it’s a valid life choice to feel the brownies are your dessert.
Corinne
Does Division of Responsibility say that you shouldn’t call things treats?
Virginia
I don’t think that’s textbook. It does emphasize the importance of not labeling foods as good and bad and it is true that there are certain contexts where treat equates with bad. I do think the messaging he’s getting at preschool may be like, “Oh, don’t eat too many treats.” You see that on Kid Food Instagram a lot.
But what I’m saying is, I think you’re going to be making your life hard and also sort of doing a disservice to your larger goals if you’re trying to correct him when he’s using the word. You don’t have to get so hung up on the word treat. If he was saying “junk food” or “it’s bad for me” or something, that would be different. But treat is not an inherently negative word. So maybe we’re overthinking a little bit.
Corinne
Does the fact that he’s asking why there isn’t a treat at every meal or snack mean that he’s not getting enough treats?
Virginia
Well, that was where I was going to go next. I’m just looking at the question again, this person says “we bake often, and we’ll do snacks where the treat is on the menu, and he gets unlimited access to those things. We try to do it regularly, but still his talk of treats persists.” So, what is regularly is my question. Because if it’s once a week, that may not be regularly enough.
And the advice, if you’re gonna go back to Ellyn Satter canon—which you don’t have to do. You don’t have to follow all of those rules, this is a choice. But the official advice is you can serve dessert at most meals in a smaller portion and then also have snack times where treats are unlimited, so that kids get these opportunities, at least once a week, it could be more often, to eat as many cookies as they want. and there’s a cookie available at dinner. Now in my house, we are not that precise about it. My kids eat treats—foods that I think this four year old would call treats—pretty much every day as after school snack. They tend to have cookies or chocolate or whatever they want along with what other other food they want for snack. So we don’t always do dessert every night at dinner because I know they’ve got that like built in snack time and that’s always unlimited access at snack time. And then also usually on the weekends, there’s going for ice cream or making brownies or something where it’s really unlimited, like you’re gonna have as much as you want.
My point is, they call them treats, but they don’t have like a lot of hang ups about the idea of treats. And I think that’s our goal. It’s okay to describe cake as a treat but not have a restrictive attitude towards treats.
The other thing I want to say, because what I think I’m really picking up on in this question is a level of perfectionism around how to do these concepts. And I think that’s so understandable, but it is also what diet culture teaches us. So it is diet culture showing up in your attempt to not do diet culture, which: Valid. But I think it is useful to know is that your four year old bringing home some messaging around treats from daycare is not a disaster. It’s expected. That’s how most daycares talk about like “eat your sandwich before your cookie.” Do I agree with it? No. Do I think it’s going to lead your child to have an eating disorder? Really not. Especially if what’s happening in your home is we love all foods, we embrace all of this, we don’t have a restrictive mindset.
Corinne
All right. This is another question for you.
You said the book title changed love the title, but can’t find the old one in my brain? Explain more also?
Virginia
The original title of the book was Fat Kid Phobia. I think the subtitle was still going to be “parenting in the age of diet culture” or something like that. And I was very attached to it, because I liked how it was taking fatphobia and putting kids in there and, you know, sort of exploding that.
I know Aubrey Gordon has a great argument for why we should say anti-fat bias and not fatphobia, but I think when it comes to parents, a lot of it is fear driven as well as bias. So I did really love the title, and my publisher and my agent liked it, too, initially. And then as we got kind of further along in the process, they became concerned for a couple of reasons that were interesting to unpack. A big one was they felt like parents would not want to read a book and leave it lying around the house with “fat kid” on the cover. They worried that would be triggering to kids to see.
Corinne
That totally makes sense.
Virginia
It does. And it also broke my heart because the whole point is that we’re reclaiming fat and there’s nothing wrong with being a fat kid and fat kids are awesome. But the kid may not have read the book and the parent reading the book may be where they are with their work. They may not even want to buy it in the store, you know? So I thought that was really right, but in a way that made me sad.
I was like, “Fat has to stay on the title.” I can’t remember all the other titles we left on the cutting room floor. But there were various versions that didn’t have fat in it and I was like, No. I mean, this is a book about anti-fat bias. We’ve got to say it.
Corinne
Yeah, I remember growing up seeing books around the house and not loving it. So I think that makes sense, like Reviving Ophelia or whatever.
Virginia
Well, and I had a whole conversation with my friend Melinda Wenner Moyer who is the author of How to Raise Kids Who Aren't Assholes. And they did stick with that because they felt like it was such a central idea of what that book is about, which is basically you don’t want your kid to be Donald Trump. Here’s how we do that.
Corinne
I can imagine not liking that as a kid though.
Virginia
Right. And she said some kids are offended by the title.
So it was sort of interesting that that one made it through and fat kid was where we decided it was too hurtful. And I have feelings about that. But I do think Fat Talk is a great title because it also works on multiple levels. We are talking about the issues of fatness and anti-fat bias. Fat Talk is that thing that people do to hate on their bodies, like women do it together, and we’re challenging that idea. And it’s also a play on “sex talk,” like how you have to have the sex talk with your kids. A big argument of the book is you have to talk to your kids about anti-fat bias. You have to talk about how it manifests and how to push back against it. The last chapter of the book is called “How to Have the Fat Talk.” And of course, it’s many talks. It’s not one talk. If you like the title, you can go ahead and preorder it.
Corinne
Where would we preorder it?
Virginia
Anywhere you get your books! My local independent bookstore is doing signed copies. I will sign the copies, that sounded awkward how I said that.
Corinne
Did you come up with a new title or did the publisher?
Virginia
They came up with Fat Talk and so also I had to get over my ego because Fat Kid Phobia was mine. But the more I thought about it, the more I was like, I do like it. I do think just putting fat in the title at all does automatically mean there are people who won’t pick up the book. And that is what it is because it’s a bummer because they maybe most need to. But I just couldn’t see a way around that.
All right. People want us to talk about Halloween costumes.
Do you dress up? What are you going to be this year?
Also got some questions about Halloween candy. We could talk about that a little bit, too.
Corinne
Okay, well, I do not dress up. And I do not have children. So no one in my household dresses up.
Virginia
Not even Bunny?
Corinne
I mean, no. She doesn’t love having clothes on. And I personally feel like having to dress up as a human every day is enough of a costume.
Virginia
I am right there with you. We’re about to make ourselves very unpopular. I hate Halloween and this is a very unpopular opinion in my town. I live in a big Halloween town. So having kids in this town means that there is a school parade, there is a town parade, there is a neighborhood party. and there is trick-or-treating at this one street in town that goes crazy for Halloween and everyone in town goes there. So it is like a four day situation. And adult costumes are strongly encouraged for all of this except maybe the school parade. I hate it so much. It was just ranting to Sara Petersen about it because it’s awful.
Corinne
So are you being pressured into dressing up?
Virginia
Every year I just half-ass it and at the last minute think of something. Like last year I wore a floral sweatshirt and carried a watering can and I said I was my garden.
Corinne
That’s cute.
Virginia
It was cute. It was fine. Nobody wants to do a family costume except me because I want to do it so that I don’t have to make a decision about myself. I’m like, can you all think of a cool family costume and I’ll just be Marge Simpson or whatever you make me be? And they’re like, we’re all doing our own cool thing. You need your own cool thing. But can we also talk about how this is also a fat tax issue. Halloween costumes are harder if you’re fat, I think.
Corinne
Yeah, that seems right. I mean, I was thinking part of the reason I don’t like dressing up is because I just feel like I don’t need anything else to make me feel more uncomfortable. Like, I just want to be comfortable.
Virginia
Yeah, completely. And the sizing issues on costumes.
Corinne
It’s not like you can just walk into Spirit Halloween and buy a whatever costume.
Virginia
And, also, I don’t know, I feel like this is going sound preachy, but it’s like everyone’s environmentalism goes out the window around Halloween? The only way to efficiently do Halloween is to Amazon Prime some shit. And the whole rest of the year I’m supposed to feel guilty about Amazon. And then suddenly, for Halloween, everyone’s like, I’m Amazon-ing an astronaut costume. And I’m like, What are you going to do with it afterwards? Do you have a closet full of costumes in your house? I mean, I guess people do, but why? I don’t need a closet full of grown up costumes.
So I don’t know what I’m doing. I have a lot of angst about it already. My one idea for a costume is to be a Rockford Peach from “A League of Their Own.” Topical, witty, aesthetically pleasing to me. And I did look and there seems to be a plus size option on Amazon.
Corinne
Wow.
Virginia
But I’m still like, number one, will it fit? Like will their 1x or 2x be the 1x or 2x I need? Question mark. Number two, it’s $58. Do I need to spend $58? But I have to go to all these damn Halloween events.
Corinne
I mean, I feel that it’s impressive that you haven’t just bought a witch hat and worn all black because that’s what I would do.
Virginia
Maybe. And then I just, that’s what I do forever. Because there’s like just a huge mental load piece of it, too, figuring out your costume. Like I’ve already had to figure my kid costumes with them and like lock them in and be like, it’s panda and ladybug, guys. We’re not changing our minds.
Corinne
That’s what they’re being this year?
Virginia
Yes. The older one is being a panda. And the younger one is now being a ladybug, which I’m thrilled about because the older one was a ladybug for like four years. So we own so much ladybug stuff.
Corinne
Yeah, that’s great. Do you follow Noihsaf Bazaar on Instagram? It’s another like buyer/seller Instagram and they now have a website. And they have historically done like a Halloween costume like resale thing.
Virginia
Oh, interesting.
Corinne
Where I think you can buy used Halloween stuff. So that might be something to look into.
Virginia
I’m gonna investigate this. That would be useful. I do feel like I need to just lock in on one thing and just be like, this is my costume for the next 10 years.
Corinne
Do you have a preferred Halloween candy?
Virginia
It’s Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups or Mini Snickers. The end.
Corinne
I like Butterfinger.
Virginia
Okay, yeah, respectable. And people are gonna want to know how we manage Halloween candy. And the answer is we let our kids eat all of it. I don’t care. I don’t think about it.
Corinne
Do you sneak or steal candy from your kids?
Virginia
No, but I buy Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups and Mini Snickers for myself. I make sure we have the candy I’m going to want to have in the house. I also buy these candies at any point in the year I want them, because they are treats but I don’t have a restrictive mindset around them. See this in action right here, guys?
I let them have all the candy they want. I have literally no rules. They can eat it while we’re walking around trick-or-treating. Some people are very big on “wait till we get home so I can check it for razor blades.” And I’m just like, if this town makes me go to five freakin Halloween events and someone’s putting a razor blade on this candy? There’s no way.
So they can eat it while they walk around, I don’t care. They can come home and sit there and eat as much as they want before they go to bed. I don’t care. The next day they can eat as much as they want. Usually by day three, they’re so over it. Like, we ate all the good stuff and we’re done. And then we just throw away what they don’t feel like eating. You’re just setting yourself up for negotiations and power struggles if you try to put a lot of rules around it.
Corinne
Yeah. I will say I was very obsessed with Halloween candy as a child. I definitely noticed when my parents took one single piece out of the collection.
Virginia
That’s mean! They worked hard to get it. They wore the costume. They walked around.
Butter for Your Burnt Toast
Corinne
My butter this week is a recipe. I was at my mom’s house this summer and she gets Bon Appétit. And she was like, looking through it and she was like, “Look at this cake. It looks amazing.” And the cake is this chocolate sheet cake with brown butter frosting. And we proceeded to make it a few times over the months that I was staying with her. And it is delicious. The cake part is a chocolate cake, but it’s one of those chocolate cakes that you don’t have to use a mixer for. You can just mix it in the bowl, which I love.
Virginia
Yeah. Not Having to haul down the mixer is big.
Corinne
Yes. So you just mix it in a bowl with your spatula and dump in a pan and bake it and then the frosting has brown butter in it and it is delicious.
Virginia
Question: Is brown butter a type of butter or you have browned it in a pan?
Corinne
You have to brown it in a pan. Okay, so brown butter is when you cook butter until the milk solids in the butter turn brown and toasty. It’s very delicious.
Virginia
That sounds yummy.
Corinne
Yeah and in this particular recipe, you actually add milk powder to the butter and to get extra brown toasty bits before you whip it into frosting. And I have been putting sprinkles on top of it. And that is also very beautiful.
Virginia
That sounds really, really delicious.
So I just want to circle back to Lizzo and the flute and just say how much I loved her playing James Madison’s flute. And of course the discourse around it got ridiculous because people are absurd. But it was so great.
Oh, I am going to also talk about Lauren Leavell Fitness. I will link to her Instagram. I have just started doing her workouts and she does bootcamp, which I haven’t tried yet, cardio barre, and regular barre. And they’re just joyful. Her whole energy is delightful, super anti-diet, super fat positive.
Corinne
You do it through Instagram or she has like a Youtube or?
Virginia
She has a membership. I think it’s $40 a month. She is doing a couple of live Zoom classes per week in each of these categories. I never make it to the Zoom live because they’re like 11 on a Sunday and I have to parent my dumb kids, but she then uploads the Zoom so you can do them anytime afterwards. And so I do them at seven in the morning before my children are awake, which is when I can do them.
[Post-publication note from Virginia: A kind reader pointed out that it was unproductive and potentially harmful to listeners to call my kids “dumb” here, even as a throwaway joke, since that’s the kind of word that is often weaponized against children. I am so sorry for inadvertently triggering anyone. My kids know I think they are brilliant and beloved on a lot of levels, but I do regret this poor choice of phrase.]
Corinne
Do you need any stuff?
Virginia
Well, for barre you need a yoga mat. I do have some little two pound weights. You could probably use like a seltzer can. And then you just need like, like I just use my desk chair like as the barre. Or you could do it by a kitchen counter.
I have done barre in the past and really hated it. I did—I’m just gonna throw them under the bus—Barre Three when I was in a more diet-y place. Now I understand they have had an evolution and now they’re very body positive. But from what I could see they have hired no fat instructors. So how far have they gone?
Corinne
There’s another good one, I think body posi barre on Instagram?
Virginia
There’s definitely a couple of people doing barre in a body positive way. And I was curious to try it because I knew the exercises are similar to what I’ve been doing in PT to build up my core and work through all my back issues. It’s like a slightly more aerobic version.
Lauren is very funny, I love her energy. I just decided I am so done with having to filter it out. Do you know what I mean? Like people will be like, “I love this workout, but sometimes they talk about...” And I’m like, no. Why are we paying these people money? Why are you encouraging them?
Corinne
Yeah, I don’t need the baggage.
Virginia
Yeah, I don’t want to have to like turn down that volume and be like SHHSHHH. I just want a safe space. I am confirming that Lauren is a very safe space.
Corinne
Wait! We have one other thing we need to talk about.
Virginia
Oh, yeah? What is it?
Corinne
Virginia, you joined TikTok.
Virginia
I did. I did join TikTok. You’re right. Let’s be clear when I say I joined TikTok.
Corinne
I made Virginia a TikTok account.
Virginia
Corinne was already on TikTok.
Corinne
I am obsessed with TikTok, unfortunately.
Virginia
Fortunately for me because I was like “Corinne I think I have to do it and I don’t want to and I don’t know how.”
Corinne
So, we’re trying out TikTok.
Virginia
We are. Burnt Toast TikTok.
Corinne
Come find us. Yes. It’s @v_solesmith.
Virginia
Yeah, we just made it the same same as my Instagram so it’s easy to remember, and my Twitter. It’s a lot of cross posting from Instagram. Because now that I have to do reels on Instagram, we could do a whole other episode about my feelings about all of this. Oh, god, it’s the worst.
But we’re really trying and we’ll do some stuff probably just for Tiktok, too. Especially if more than the two of us start following me.
Corinne
Yes. Yes. So come find us on TikTok. We will follow you back.
And if you see stuff on TikTok that you think Burnt Toast should know about, send it to us. At @v_solesmith.
Virginia
Please do. Corinne is making it happen. Thank you for doing this.
Corinne
Yes. So if any Burnt Toast people need a little extra push to get on TikTok, maybe this is it. It is really cool and fun. You will lose hours of your life.
Virginia
I enjoy watching the Tiktoks that people post Instagram. As an elder millennial, that is how I have chosen to engage with that.
Corinne
Yes. You’re just seeing them weeks late.
Virginia
I like being three weeks late to something. I think that’s good for me.
Alright, I think we did an episode. Thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Tell people where to follow us on all of the places.
Corinne
Well, you can follow me personally at @selltradeplus on Instagram or at @selfiefay my personal account. And you can find Virginia @v_solesmith on Instagram, Twitter, and now TikTok!
Virginia
Wait, what’s your TikTok? Are you on TikTok?
Corinne
Yes, I’m on TikTok. I think my TikTok is @SelfieFay which is the same as my personal Instagram. I will say I rarely post. I think I’ve only posted like dog stuff, but maybe that will change.
Virginia
I mean, we’re here for the dog content. But you’re not doing @selltradeplus on TikTok.
Corinne
Oh, God. Well, stay tuned.
Virginia
Awesome. Well, thank you for doing this. This was great.
The Burnt Toast podcast is produced and hosted by me, Virginia Sole-Smith. You can follow me on Instagram, Twitter, and now TikTok! at @v_solesmith.
Our transcripts are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.
The Burnt toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.
Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell
And Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.
Thanks for listening and supporting independent anti-diet journalism!
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