Winter Coats, Holiday Parties, and Good Comebacks

The Burnt Toast Podcast

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Winter Coats, Holiday Parties, and Good Comebacks

A December AMA with Virginia and Corinne

Virginia Sole-Smith

and

Corinne Fay

Dec 08, 2022

Post-Publication Note: Many of you have emailed to let me know that the J. Crew coat we talk about in this episode is no longer available in plus sizes! The link has changed since we put it in the transcript and we’re so sorry. Anti-fat bias in fashion is REAL, y’all.

You're listening to Burnt Toast. I'm Virginia Sole-Smith and I also write the Burnt Toast newsletter.

And today Corinne is back! She got bangs, you guys! And it is time for a very special holiday themed Ask Us Anything. As always, we record these once a month. (Except last month when Thanksgiving threw us off. But here’s October if you missed it!) So if you have questions, you can email them over by hitting reply to any newsletter or drop them here.

One quick piece of advocacy, first: Please sign this petition in support of clemency for Nikki Addimando, a mom in my community currently serving a five-year prison sentence for killing her abusive partner in self-defense. It’s long past time that we stop criminalizing survival. As Nikki said at her sentencing trial: "I wish more than anything it ended another way. I wouldn't be in this courtroom right now, but I wouldn't be alive either. This is why women don't leave. They so often end up dead or where I'm standing — alive, but still not free.”

We are asking the governor of New York to commute Nikki’s remaining sentence and bring her home to her children this year. You can read more of Nikki’s story here (CW for sexual assault and abuse), follow the #FreeNikki campaign on Instagram, and share the petition with friends here.

Send Nikki Home!

Episode 72 Transcript

Virginia

How are you? How are you doing?

Corinne

I’m doing good. As discussed, I got bangs.

Virginia

Yes, and you were on an emotional journey with them. But now you’re feeling good about the bangs?

Corinne

Yeah. I think I’m feeling good about the bangs. This time of year is so crazy. Do you have any upcoming travel holiday stuff?

Virginia

For Christmas we are doing this big trip. My brother-in-law and his family live in Bangkok. They have been there for years and we haven’t visited yet. And you know, when the pandemic happened we couldn’t go. So we’re finally doing it.

Corinne

So you’re going to Thailand? In, like, a month? Wow.

Virginia

Yeah. For Christmas. With my children.

Corinne

Oh my God.

Virginia

And my amazing 15-year-old niece who I’m hoping is really going to hold the whole thing together. No pressure, Lorelai! I’m super excited. It’ll be such a great adventure. I’m also a little bit glad we couldn’t go in 2020 when we had a two-year-old. I think that would have been much harder. But still, listeners: If you have any tips about long haul travel with a five- and nine-year-old, tell me in the comments! I need all of the advice.

Winter Fat Fashion

Corinne

Yes. Okay!

Your recommendation for soft pants has been life changing. Thank you for introducing me to Eileen Fisher Lantern pants. Any recommendations for winter coats like a soft coat?

Virginia

Well, that’s a thank you to you because you introduced us all to Eileen Fisher lantern pants.

Corinne

I’ve never been more flattered in my life. I feel like I’m finally being seen.

Virginia

I now really need to get some because this is like a double endorsement. It’s very exciting.

Corinne

They are great. You just got a coat!

Virginia

I did just get a coat, so I do have a coat recommendation. Basically, I wanted a quilted barn coat like my five year old wears, and I wanted it in my size. And I went on an odyssey to find it. I was sent many links over Instagram for coats, and I ended up getting the J.Crew quilted cocoon puffer in olive green. I love it a lot.

We previously discussed the issues of being hot / running warm when you are fat. And this coat is warm in cold weather but very lightweight. Like, it doesn’t make me sweaty. So it’s really threading that needle.

Corinne

Yeah. And the shoulder restriction in the car?

Virginia

Restriction is good. And I will say I have heard very mixed things about J.Crew plus sizing in general. But this coat I feel optimistic about because I think I bought the XXL, which suggests to me that like the 1x, 2x, 3x are sized appropriately. It’s a roomy coat. I think it’s a pretty inclusive option for folks. I will say the zipper was stiff but a reader told me to run a wax candle over it and that helped. What about you? You’re a big coat fan.

Corinne

I do like coats. I’m more of a light coat person. I just recently got a fleece from Alder Apparel, which is a Canadian outdoor brand that has very inclusive sizing.

Virginia

Yeah, they’re supposed to be great.

Corinne

They are great. Some of the stuff is pretty pricey, but it’s great. I love it. And I would definitely call it a soft coat. Sometimes I wear it around the house. Another thing I really like about it is that it has snaps.

Virginia

Oh, yeah, that’s good.

Corinne

I’m very into snaps on a shirt or a jacket. I feel like they last longer than buttons. You never accidentally pop them off. I’ve also, in the past, gotten coats from Universal Standard and Girlfriend Collective, puffy style coats. They both have a lot of sizes and styles.

Virginia

While I was doing my coat research Universal Standard sent me approximately 18 emails about coats because that’s how that works. And I didn’t end up buying one, but they have some strong contenders. Definitely wait for sales and if you do the J Crew coat for sure wait for a sale because I got my I think I paid like $90 dollars for it. I got a really good deal.

Corinne

Oh wow, thats a really good deal.

Virginia

We also got a request for fleece leggings. And I have the same request. I have a pair from LL Bean but I don’t love them. I need to hike them up a lot. They don’t hold their shape super well.

Corinne

I don’t have any fleece leggings. I don’t know if I would wear them, but here is what I’ve heard. There’s a Canadian brand called Anne Mulaire and they have a pair of bamboo fleece leggings.

Virginia

Oooh, that sounds exciting. Yes.

Corinne

And then I have also heard Land’s End and Target have fleece leggings but I can’t personally endorse any of those.

Virginia

No, but that’s good to know to check out. Yeah, that’s exciting. I was also thinking this might be a place for the Naadam cashmere pants we discussed previously. I get their emails and I put them in the cart every week and then I don’t quite pull the trigger because they’re kind of expensive.

Corinne

They are kind of expensive.

Virginia

I mean, they’ve definitely been doing some 25% discounts. So I know they go on sale.

Corinne

Wait until 40%.

Virginia

Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly. I mean, I know you love your shorts from them.

Corinne

I have also had pants from them, which got eaten by moths, but they were great.

Virginia

That’s the miserable part about Cashmere. All right, what’s next?

Photo by Maria Korneeva via Getty Images

How do you balance feelings around bodies and clothing? Especially when it feels like buying and finding clothes would be cheaper and easier in a smaller body?

Corinne

This question makes me sad.

Virginia

I know, I know. Because there’s like a kernel of truth to it, right? There are more clothing options for small bodies. That’s true.

Corinne

It’s just like, how do you balance feelings around it? You can’t really. It just sucks. I guess you balance feeling around it by finding things that you like to wear.

Virginia

I wouldn’t normally say shop your feelings, but I think here I would say shop your feelings. I do think when you can find even just one piece you’re really excited to wear, it helps so much. And when you’re in a transition with your body, that happens, right? Nothing fits and you’re trying so hard. It can just feel so miserable.

It’s not an easy solution, like “just go buy something great!” And you’re like, but there is nothing great. But I’m trying to think what’s the easy starting point? Like, maybe it’s a top? I feel like tops can be easier to fit than pants. Depends on your body, maybe? A dress might be easier?

Corinne

Or even an accessory, like a hat or something where it’s something anyone could wear.

Virginia

I mean, I think this is why I leaned into glasses so much. When I have my cool glasses on, I feel stylish no matter what. That’s a nice baseline. So finding that anchor piece. And then, it’s still going to suck. It’s just gonna suck.

Corinne

I think the glasses are good advice. I would also say maybe this is a time for remembering: You’re still a cool, interesting person even if you don’t have all the right clothes.

Virginia

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes! Write that down if you need to. Put that somewhere you can read that, by your closet.

And I just want to underscore that neither of us are saying pursue a smaller body in order to make this easier. That’s not the answer. It won’t really work. It won’t make you happier.

Corinne

It will definitely make you miserable. Okay, next question.

When you’re in a store, and they don’t carry your size, do you have any cute snarky comeback or response?

Virginia

You know, I had such a fail on this recently. Dan and I were away for the weekend. We were in Kingston, New York, which is a very cute Hudson Valley town. And we went into this super cute boutique that had clothes and home stuff. And I realized right away, they had nothing in my size. And I completely did nothing about it. I said nothing. I purchased nothing. I just wandered around the store. Dan bought a shirt because they had his size. I advised him on buying the shirt. And then we left and I was just grumpy about it.

And I was like, Why didn’t I speak up? Like, this is literally what I do. But I was looking around for who I would talk to and the store was very crowded also. So even getting a salesperson… it was a Saturday. Getting someone’s attention was gonna be hard. And then I saw who I thought was the manager, and he was this skinny, hipster guy. And I just was like, he’s not gonna get it. It was a combination of a lot of things. But I was also furious, because I would have spent a lot of money and they had really cute stuff. I would have bought things. I think what happens is you suddenly have this feeling of like, I don’t belong here. They don’t want me here. Yeah, it’s hard to overcome in the moment.

Corinne

That really does suck. I don’t think that I’ve ever said anything about that to anyone, either. I feel like there might have been times where there’s been a bigger person working in the store and then I’ve just been like, “Oh, I really wish you guys carried bigger stuff,” and they’ve been like, “I know.”

Virginia

Yeah. I probably would have felt safer saying something in that context.

Corinne

I feel like I’m just so accustomed at this point to stores not having my size.

Virginia

Right. I was expecting it.

Corinne

It’s just so much the norm.

Virginia

It was a moment where I thought to myself, you know, I’ve been really working on doing this advocacy in doctors offices, like I decline to be weighed. I work on saying why and I am working on that piece of it. And I was like, I need to start building these skills in retail, as well. I so rarely shop in person. So if this is something you want to work on, I think it’s a great place for activism. But I also think if you just feel like it feels hard, it’s okay to just leave the store and shop online instead or whatever. Or you can always like, I think it can be effective to do some calling out in social media, depending.

Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

On Saying No To the Scale

Last week, I had my first physical since 2019. I am not proud of this lapse in preventative healthcare. But the pandemic, of course. And even once it felt safer to go to doctor’s offices, every time I’d do my family’s exposure/risk math, my own relatively mundane healthcare needs felt like the obvious thing to postpone, unlike say, my daughter’s cardiol…

2 years ago · 35 likes · 40 comments · Virginia Sole-Smith

Corinne

I’d be curious to hear from readers / listeners, if they have done this or have good thoughts on how to do it. Or maybe someone’s done it and the shop has started carrying bigger sizes!

Virginia

I did have a nice exchange with a thin friend, recently. She DM’ed me a brand and she was like, “this brand has amazing jeans and they’re size inclusive. They go up to whatever.” And I looked at the size chart and I was like, “no they don’t.”

Corinne

Oh yeah, like they go up to a 4x and it’s a size 12.

Virginia

Exactly. It was not extended sizes. And she was like, “Oh my God, I didn’t understand that.” I mean, she’s skinny, she’d never had to try on the 4x and realize this. So she was like, “Well, I’m friends with her so I’ll talk to her about it” and I was like, “Good, yes.”

Corinne

That’s really awesome.

Virginia

If you are a good customer in a store that’s not size inclusive, especially these local boutiques, that does feel like a place where you can do this. And I also hear from local boutique owners about how there’s many layers making it difficult for them to do this. But they totally should still get this feedback from customers.

Corinne

Okay, the next question is:

Virginia, could you do a bra science project like you did with Jeans Science?

Virginia

No. Don’t make me. Don’t make me do it.

Corinne

You need a PhD for that. You need an advanced degree in mathematics.

Virginia

Oh my God. I have shared before the bra brands that I like that I shop at barenecessities.com. They have really good customer service. They carry a really wide array of sizes and styles. I have found decent bras there.

I do not feel amazed about my bras regularly, but I feel fine about my bras. I do think there is a deeper investigative story to be done about the way bras are marketed and the weird pseudoscience around bra fits and the way you have to be such an educated customer to understand bras. Like, I do think there’s a fascinating American marketing story to be told there. So I will think about it. But I do not think it will translate to me trying on 600 bras for you.

Corinne

Maybe not a bra science journey.

Virginia

Yeah, not like a try-on experience. Because I don’t want to try on bras.

Corinne

As bad as jeans are, bras would be worse.

Virginia

It has occurred to me that another way to do fashion science in the future would be to get some Burnt Toast reader-volunteers who want to try stuff on and maybe we make some kind of test panel?

Corinne

Interesting.

Virginia

I haven’t worked out any details around that, like logistics. It would be people having to shop and put it on your own credit card and manage your own returns.

Holiday Survival Mode

Virginia

So that was all our clothing questions for this month. Now we’re going to get into holiday questions, since by the time this airs, we will have just had Thanksgiving. I hope you all survived. And for many of us, now we’re getting into Hanukkah and Christmas, et cetera, et cetera. It’s an intense time of year for bodies and food and all of the feelings.

Corinne

Yes. Okay. Let me ask you the first question:

So we’re having Thanksgiving with a family who has one kid with extreme picky eating, and it’s somehow always a focus of conversation. Can’t possibly be comfortable for the kid. Plus, my daughter is old enough to pick up some of the terrible food messaging. Is there anything to do here except just change the subject?

Virginia

Oh, so this is interesting. So the picky eater is presumably a nephew or niece or something, not your child but another child at the table where relatives are focusing on that kid’s picky eating. Yeah, that’s a bummer. I mean, my go to line in these situations is “We trust their body. We’re not worried about this.” But if you’re not the parent, that might feel weird, for you to be like, “I trust your body.” He’s like, “Thanks. I haven’t seen you in eight months.”

Corinne

Or then the kids’ parents feeling like you’re criticizing them.

Virginia

Exactly. Depending on the relationship, you may not really have a way to wade in. I think changing the subject is good. I think, don’t worry so much about what your daughter will pick up from it, you are modeling a different way of thinking about food to her and that matters most. If you feel like it’s contributing to negative talk at the table, like now everybody’s being weird about food, you can definitely try to pivot that. Talk about how delicious things are. You’re so excited to be having this meal. There’s so many good foods to try.

But also, make sure your daughter knows she’s under no obligation to eat food she doesn’t like. It’s fine! She can say yes or no to things and I think as long as your own boundaries are clear, she can understand that other families handle this differently. And yeah, it’s kind of a bummer that her cousin doesn’t get to just eat rolls or whatever it is he wants to do. But you know, I think you have to go carefully here. Because however the parents are choosing to handle it, this is probably a huge source of stress and worry for them and I think you want to be respectful of that and a big family meal is not the place where you’re going to have a real heart to heart about it.

Corinne

Um, I feel like this is probably the wrong answer. But I think if I were in this situation, I would probably take the aggro approach of being like, “wow, we’re really talking about what this kids eating a lot.”

Virginia

Oh, I like it. It’s a little spicy. I like it.

Corinne

I have very low tolerance for bullying.

Virginia

I think that’s kind of great.

Corinne

I think sometimes a neutral observation about what’s going on can make people realize they are acting weird.

Virginia

Yeah. Especially if it’s coming from mutual relatives. Like, if it’s your mom, who’s the grandma saying this stuff, by all means get in there and help set some boundaries. And probably the parents will really appreciate it, even if they are doing their own sort of weird stuff around food with this kid.

Corinne

Yeah, that’s good. I just like the approach of just stating an observation and other people can take that chance to reflect.

Virginia

Exactly. That’s perfect.

Corinne

How to navigate a mother-in-law who won’t stop expressing worry about a six year old grandson’s body to my husband who doesn’t push back against it or shut it down. She won’t say it to me, so I can’t address it directly. Their family is rail thin. I am fat. Kiddo has been big since babyhood and is a healthy, active, happy little boy who loves goldfish crackers. Makes me so mad.

Virginia

This is your husband’s problem. You need to talk to him about advocating for you and your child with his mom. This is his territory. Especially because she’s not saying it to you. So either you have set a boundary or she just realizes it would be pushing things too far. But if she is expressing worry about the kid in front of the kid to your husband, your husband needs to shut that down. This is where he needs to say, “We trust his body. We’re not worried. We don’t see a problem here.” And if he’s not willing to do that, I have questions for him, and some notes.

Corinne

The question I have about this question is, if the mother-in-law is expressing worry to the husband, how is the question asker finding out about it?

Virginia

Probably because he’s coming back and saying “I can’t believe what my mom said.”

Corinne

Is he saying, “Can you believe this horrible thing my mom said?” or is he saying “You know, my mom is really worried about…” Like, whose side is he on here? Which is maybe not a nice way of putting it.

Virginia

No, I think this husband has some explaining to do of his position. And why he’s not backing his kid and his wife better. That’s what it comes down to. I don’t think you have to take on your mother-in-law. If she does say it in front of you, I feel pretty confident you will address it directly. And just keep letting your kid love his goldfish crackers. And you do you. But yeah, your husband needs to step up.

Corinne

What are your favorite one liners to respond to common fatphobic comments from family during the holidays?

Virginia

Well, now I’m going to use yours of like “We’re really talking about this?” because I love that.

Corinne

Yeah, not a one liner. But I do think a good approach is just to be like, “Wow, it’s so interesting that you’re commenting on my body.” It’s like, I don’t know, you’re taking like the anthropologist approach. I mean, how often am I actually able to do that and not just be like “shut up you idiot?” Definitely not very often.

Virginia

But this is the goal. The way this stuff comes out in events that I’m at, it’s usually more food shaming than body shaming. When people are talking about how I’m being so bad, I can’t eat X. So then I do a lot of like, “no bad foods, no bad foods.” And I just like will keep dropping that in as needed. I also often disengage. I’ll just steer clear, change the subject. Depending on what I have the energy for. You don’t have to fight every one of these because there’s too many. And it’s exhausting. But yeah, I think if it’s around kids, I always do jump in. Then I always do say, “there are no bad foods, and we trust their bodies and this is not a problem.” I wish I had more funny lines. I don’t feel like I have good funny lines here.

Corinne

Yeah. Me neither. I think the funny line is so appealing because it can just turn something that’s so uncomfortable into like a “gotcha!” moment. But it’s really hard to think of them.

Virginia

It’s really hard because a line you could memorize now won’t actually apply to the comment that comes out.

Corinne

Yeah, you never quite see it coming.

Virginia

I also think if it’s possible to set some boundaries ahead of time, that can go a really long way. This is if you have someone in your family that is a problem. If you could like send a note ahead of time and be like, “I love you. I can’t wait to see you. I really don’t want to talk about bodies or food.”

Corinne

Yeah.

Virginia

And if they can’t respect that, then when it comes up, you could do like, “It’s so interesting that you’re talking about bodies and food, despite my email.”

Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

How Do You Respond to Diet Talk From Loved Ones?

Today’s Friday Thread is a reader request and one that seems especially useful as we are now firmly in the winter holiday season: How do you know when it's best to reply to weight/body/food comments with language that might help provide some education to a clueless relative, and when when to just set a boundary and disengage…

a year ago · 36 likes · 55 comments · Virginia Sole-Smith

Corinne

Do you have any tips for holiday treats and potluck season in the workplace?

Virginia

I didn’t totally understand this question. Because I think my main tip would be to just enjoy the food?

Corinne

I interpreted it as being a little like the last question where there’s a lot of treats and food around people make weird comments. Mostly because that was my experience of holiday treats and parties at work.

Virginia

Oh yeah, office parties are the literal worst for that.

Corinne

Yeah. So not to be the one trick pony, but I feel like that same thing works really well in the office because you’re not getting emotional about it. “Oh, it’s so interesting that you don’t let yourself eat chocolate.”

Virginia

I love this. The “It’s so interesting” is the go-to framing.

Corinne

“I’m noticing that you’re being really hard on yourself about food.”

Virginia

That’s really good.

Corinne

I do think the holiday food at the office thing is really stressful.

Virginia

I mean, another thing is like, can you just not go to some of these events? How important is it to attend? I’m a big fan of doing less around the holidays and if there’s something where you just know it would be impossible to just sit and enjoy the cookie plate because everyone’s going to be so toxic about it, make your own cookies at home and just skip it if you can. If that feels okay to do in your job.

Corinne

I’ve worked a lot of places where at the holidays the company gets sent holiday treats. And then there’s always just tons of caramel popcorn and weird boxes of chocolate and fruit trays and cookie trays. And yeah, people are just so weird about it.

Virginia

Yeah, that’s exhausting.

Corinne

I mean, it is nice to have cookies around.

Virginia

I think that’s another way to go into it, right? You talk about what you’re enjoying. And you can do sort of the same quizzical thing of like, “I’m really enjoying this cookie plate. You don’t seem to be.”

Corinne

“So interesting that you don’t like cookies.”

Virginia

“That sounds like not a really fun way to have this party for you.”

Corinne

The longer I look at this question, now I’m like maybe they’re asking how should you deal with not feeling like you need to restrict your eating around this stuff?

Virginia

I mean, I do think these events can be big triggers. If you’re someone who struggles with restriction, you’ll feel like you need to compensate beforehand or after. And I think remembering that you don’t, that your body knows what to do with food. Even if you eat a lot of cookies and your stomach hurts for a little while. This is not a fatal condition, you’re gonna feel better in the morning. Just really giving yourself permission if you have been restricting a lot in the past. This is probably a really important time for you to lean into permission, lean into “I’m going to let myself have as much as I want of everything.” And then be very non-judgmental about what that looks like. Because the temptation is going to be to start counting and calibrating and all of that, and you just need to have some good support people around hopefully, like have some folks who can help you remember, “I am leaning into permission. I’m leaning into I can have whatever I want.”

Because these treats are not around all the time, it is understandable that they do trigger a little scarcity mindset. Like, Oh, these Christmas cookies that I only eat at Christmas, I want to get a lot of them because I only eat them at Christmas. That’s not a problem. That’s a normal way to react to a food you don’t see often. It is often a situation where you’re kind of noticing how scarcity mindset shows up. But if you can remember that this is like a benign scarcity mindset, if that makes sense. And it doesn’t necessarily need to trigger any kind of response afterwards. You don’t need to do anything differently the next day.

Corinne

And no matter how bad it is, it will be over in a month.

Virginia

You will make it through. You will make it then we’ll be in January, which is a whole other journey.

Corinne

Is it really okay that I don’t restrict how much sugar my kids eat? I do not feel confident.

Virginia

It is really okay. It is really, really, okay. It’s not only really okay, it’s really important that you don’t restrict how much sugar your kids eat. Because the more you restrict it, the more they will fixate on it and the more this will become a source of stress for both of you. I suspect you don’t feel confident because you are early on in this process of releasing restriction and you’re probably seeing them eat a lot of sugar and that feels uncomfortable to you. But your discomfort is not a reason to put restrictions back on because they’re not actually doing anything wrong. They are responding to a release from restriction by eating which is what their bodies are supposed to do. You need to sit in this discomfort and let this happen and see where it goes. And you may always have kids who love a lot of sugar or you may have kids who love sugar, but get to a more take it or leave it place. And neither of those is better or worse than the other. You’re gonna let them figure out their own relationship with sugar. And that’s the goal. But yeah, you have to sit in this discomfort right now. And it is hard because it’s going against the grain of so much of what you’ve been taught to do. But it is really, really okay.

Butter

I’d love to hear about any books you’re reading lately.

Virginia

I have already plugged it, but I really love Helen Hoang’s romance novels The Heart Principle and Kiss Quotient. They’re delightful. Feminist romance in general is a genre I really got into this year and I’m super here for it.

The non-romance novel I will endorse is Flight by my friend Lynn Steger Strong. It is so beautiful and awesome. It just came out a couple of weeks ago. It’s a great holiday read. She’s having to deal with the whole like, it’s a mom book, it’s a Christmas book. And it’s also like actually brilliant fiction that if a man wrote it would not have those labels on it.

Corinne

I’m in a weird phase of I haven’t been reading a lot, but this summer I read This Time Tomorrow.

Virginia

Oh, yes.

Corinne

By Emma Straub. And I loved it. And I’m kind of annoyed that more people I know haven’t read it.

Virginia

That was the number one book I read this year.

Corinne

Oh, it was just so good. And then I went on a rabbit hole of like reading everything she wrote.

Virginia

All her books are good.

Corinne

I want everyone to read that.

Virginia

I keep wanting Dan to read it. I’m like, this is such a beautiful father/daughter story that’s just, like, amazing.

Corinne

And yeah, I would say especially if you’re someone who’s lost a parent or lost a father, it’s really good.

Virginia

But also be prepared for it being a hard read. It’s beautiful. And she lost her own dad this year. That’s all a part of it. And oh my god, it’s so beautiful.

Corinne

Yeah, I have a feminist romance question. I’m curious if you’ve read this book, Rosaline Palmer Takes the Cake. It’s a romance that takes place on the Great British Bake Off, basically. I mean, fictionally. My mom has gotten into romance and she listened to it and then I listened to it on her audible account. And it’s great. The main character is bisexual, so i guess thats what makes it Feminist. But I thought it was really good.

Virginia

That is an excellent recommendation. Okay, I mean, we just gave some but do you have other Butter recommendations?

Corinne

My recommendation is for you to make yourself a monte cristo sandwich.

Virginia

This sounds delicious.

Corinne

Do you know what that is?

Virginia

No, say more.

Corinne

Okay. So it’s a sandwich. It’s a ham and cheese sandwich. The inside is ham and cheese. And you put bread on the outside, and then you put the bread in egg. Like French toast-y. And then you cook it. So the inside is like melting ham and cheese and outside is like french toast bread. And then traditionally you sprinkle sugar on it. So if you like a slightly sweet thing, you could do that. Or you could not do that.

Virginia

This sounds like it solves my perpetual brunch conundrum of whether I want to go sweet or savory, the eggs or pancakes debate.

Corinne

Yes. And I mean, this is maybe a little annoying, but I feel like the way to do it is to sprinkle sugar on it and then torch it or put it under the boiler. So it’s like a brulee sandwich.

Virginia

Oh, so as you are toasting the sandwich, just like you would do with French toast, right?

Corinne

Do you do that with french toast?

Virginia

Yeah, I dip it in the egg mixture and I put it on the griddle. Then when I flip, I sprinkle the cinnamon sugar on and then I flip and sprinkle the cinnamon sugar on and so that that’s caramelizing on that as the French toast is cooking. If you’re making french toast, this is French toast with ham and cheese inside.

Corinne

Yes. It’s delicious. It’s genius.

Virginia

That’s really good. Well, we could link to a recipe, but also I think you’ve just explained it to us.

Corinne

What’s your butter?

Virginia

Okay, so my butter is I just discovered “Derry Girls.” Have you watched?

Corinne

I also have just started watching it.

Virginia

It’s so good. It’s so good. I’m obsessed. I don’t know how to express my love for it. I feel about it the way I felt about “A League of Their Own.” Which is to say extremely enthusiastic. And I was in a mourning period because I just finished “Bad Sisters” and I felt like I didn’t have anything to watch.

Corinne

“Bad Sisters” is so good.

Virginia

It was so good! And I wasn’t ready to leave Ireland, it turns out. So “Derry Girls,” if you haven’t seen it, is set in Northern Ireland in the 1980s when they’re at the height of…

Corinne

The Troubles.

Virginia

But it’s very funny about being a teenager in a country where bombings happen a lot. And also very moving. And oh my God, I’m obsessed. I watched the whole first season in like two nights,

I’m watching on nights when Dan is out and I’m on my own, which happens a couple times a week. And I’m doing a very good puzzle while I watch Derry Girls, and it’s just like my little blissful evening routine.

Alright, I think we did an episode! Thank you, Corinne. This was great. Do you want to tell people where to find you?

Corinne

You can find me on Instagram @selltradeplus or @selfiefay is my personal account.

Virginia

Thanks again for listening to Burnt Toast!

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by me, Virginia Sole-Smith. You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter.

Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting independent anti diet journalism. I’ll talk to you soon.

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The Burnt Toast Podcast

Weekly conversations about how we dismantle diet culture and fatphobia, especially through parenting, health and fashion. (But non-parents like it too!) Hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith, journalist and author of THE EATING INSTINCT and the forthcoming FAT KID PHOBIA.

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