Post-Publication Note: Many of you have emailed to let me know that the J. Crew coat we talk about in this episode is no longer available in plus sizes! The link has changed since we put it in the transcript and we’re so sorry. Anti-fat bias in fashion is REAL, y’all.
You're listening to Burnt Toast. I'm Virginia Sole-Smith and I also write the Burnt Toast newsletter.
And today Corinne is back! She got bangs, you guys! And it is time for a very special holiday themed Ask Us Anything. As always, we record these once a month. (Except last month when Thanksgiving threw us off. But here’s October if you missed it!) So if you have questions, you can email them over by hitting reply to any newsletter or drop them here.
One quick piece of advocacy, first: Please sign this petition in support of clemency for Nikki Addimando, a mom in my community currently serving a five-year prison sentence for killing her abusive partner in self-defense. It’s long past time that we stop criminalizing survival. As Nikki said at her sentencing trial: "I wish more than anything it ended another way. I wouldn't be in this courtroom right now, but I wouldn't be alive either. This is why women don't leave. They so often end up dead or where I'm standing — alive, but still not free.”
We are asking the governor of New York to commute Nikki’s remaining sentence and bring her home to her children this year. You can read more of Nikki’s story here (CW for sexual assault and abuse), follow the #FreeNikki campaign on Instagram, and share the petition with friends here.
Episode 72 Transcript
Virginia
How are you? How are you doing?
Corinne
I’m doing good. As discussed, I got bangs.
Virginia
Yes, and you were on an emotional journey with them. But now you’re feeling good about the bangs?
Corinne
Yeah. I think I’m feeling good about the bangs. This time of year is so crazy. Do you have any upcoming travel holiday stuff?
Virginia
For Christmas we are doing this big trip. My brother-in-law and his family live in Bangkok. They have been there for years and we haven’t visited yet. And you know, when the pandemic happened we couldn’t go. So we’re finally doing it.
Corinne
So you’re going to Thailand? In, like, a month? Wow.
Virginia
Yeah. For Christmas. With my children.
Corinne
Oh my God.
Virginia
And my amazing 15-year-old niece who I’m hoping is really going to hold the whole thing together. No pressure, Lorelai! I’m super excited. It’ll be such a great adventure. I’m also a little bit glad we couldn’t go in 2020 when we had a two-year-old. I think that would have been much harder. But still, listeners: If you have any tips about long haul travel with a five- and nine-year-old, tell me in the comments! I need all of the advice.
Corinne
Well, it’ll definitely be an adventure!
Virginia
Oh, it will be. I’m super excited.
Alright, should we do some questions? We have many questions this time. I tried to group them into categories for us. And since this is our December episode, we’re going to do some December-y type questions.
Winter Fat Fashion
Corinne
Yes. Okay!
Your recommendation for soft pants has been life changing. Thank you for introducing me to Eileen Fisher Lantern pants. Any recommendations for winter coats like a soft coat?
Virginia
Well, that’s a thank you to you because you introduced us all to Eileen Fisher lantern pants.
Corinne
I’ve never been more flattered in my life. I feel like I’m finally being seen.
Virginia
I now really need to get some because this is like a double endorsement. It’s very exciting.
Corinne
They are great. You just got a coat!
Virginia
I did just get a coat, so I do have a coat recommendation. Basically, I wanted a quilted barn coat like my five year old wears, and I wanted it in my size. And I went on an odyssey to find it. I was sent many links over Instagram for coats, and I ended up getting the J.Crew quilted cocoon puffer in olive green. I love it a lot.
We previously discussed the issues of being hot / running warm when you are fat. And this coat is warm in cold weather but very lightweight. Like, it doesn’t make me sweaty. So it’s really threading that needle.
Corinne
Yeah. And the shoulder restriction in the car?
Virginia
Restriction is good. And I will say I have heard very mixed things about J.Crew plus sizing in general. But this coat I feel optimistic about because I think I bought the XXL, which suggests to me that like the 1x, 2x, 3x are sized appropriately. It’s a roomy coat. I think it’s a pretty inclusive option for folks. I will say the zipper was stiff but a reader told me to run a wax candle over it and that helped. What about you? You’re a big coat fan.
Corinne
I do like coats. I’m more of a light coat person. I just recently got a fleece from Alder Apparel, which is a Canadian outdoor brand that has very inclusive sizing.
Virginia
Yeah, they’re supposed to be great.
Corinne
They are great. Some of the stuff is pretty pricey, but it’s great. I love it. And I would definitely call it a soft coat. Sometimes I wear it around the house. Another thing I really like about it is that it has snaps.
Virginia
Oh, yeah, that’s good.
Corinne
I’m very into snaps on a shirt or a jacket. I feel like they last longer than buttons. You never accidentally pop them off. I’ve also, in the past, gotten coats from Universal Standard and Girlfriend Collective, puffy style coats. They both have a lot of sizes and styles.
Virginia
While I was doing my coat research Universal Standard sent me approximately 18 emails about coats because that’s how that works. And I didn’t end up buying one, but they have some strong contenders. Definitely wait for sales and if you do the J Crew coat for sure wait for a sale because I got my I think I paid like $90 dollars for it. I got a really good deal.
Corinne
Oh wow, thats a really good deal.
Virginia
We also got a request for fleece leggings. And I have the same request. I have a pair from LL Bean but I don’t love them. I need to hike them up a lot. They don’t hold their shape super well.
Corinne
I don’t have any fleece leggings. I don’t know if I would wear them, but here is what I’ve heard. There’s a Canadian brand called Anne Mulaire and they have a pair of bamboo fleece leggings.
Virginia
Oooh, that sounds exciting. Yes.
Corinne
And then I have also heard Land’s End and Target have fleece leggings but I can’t personally endorse any of those.
Virginia
No, but that’s good to know to check out. Yeah, that’s exciting. I was also thinking this might be a place for the Naadam cashmere pants we discussed previously. I get their emails and I put them in the cart every week and then I don’t quite pull the trigger because they’re kind of expensive.
Corinne
They are kind of expensive.
Virginia
I mean, they’ve definitely been doing some 25% discounts. So I know they go on sale.
Corinne
Wait until 40%.
Virginia
Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly. I mean, I know you love your shorts from them.
Corinne
I have also had pants from them, which got eaten by moths, but they were great.
Virginia
That’s the miserable part about Cashmere. All right, what’s next?
How do you balance feelings around bodies and clothing? Especially when it feels like buying and finding clothes would be cheaper and easier in a smaller body?
Corinne
This question makes me sad.
Virginia
I know, I know. Because there’s like a kernel of truth to it, right? There are more clothing options for small bodies. That’s true.
Corinne
It’s just like, how do you balance feelings around it? You can’t really. It just sucks. I guess you balance feeling around it by finding things that you like to wear.
Virginia
I wouldn’t normally say shop your feelings, but I think here I would say shop your feelings. I do think when you can find even just one piece you’re really excited to wear, it helps so much. And when you’re in a transition with your body, that happens, right? Nothing fits and you’re trying so hard. It can just feel so miserable.
It’s not an easy solution, like “just go buy something great!” And you’re like, but there is nothing great. But I’m trying to think what’s the easy starting point? Like, maybe it’s a top? I feel like tops can be easier to fit than pants. Depends on your body, maybe? A dress might be easier?
Corinne
Or even an accessory, like a hat or something where it’s something anyone could wear.
Virginia
I mean, I think this is why I leaned into glasses so much. When I have my cool glasses on, I feel stylish no matter what. That’s a nice baseline. So finding that anchor piece. And then, it’s still going to suck. It’s just gonna suck.
Corinne
I think the glasses are good advice. I would also say maybe this is a time for remembering: You’re still a cool, interesting person even if you don’t have all the right clothes.
Virginia
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes! Write that down if you need to. Put that somewhere you can read that, by your closet.
And I just want to underscore that neither of us are saying pursue a smaller body in order to make this easier. That’s not the answer. It won’t really work. It won’t make you happier.
Corinne
It will definitely make you miserable. Okay, next question.
When you’re in a store, and they don’t carry your size, do you have any cute snarky comeback or response?
Virginia
You know, I had such a fail on this recently. Dan and I were away for the weekend. We were in Kingston, New York, which is a very cute Hudson Valley town. And we went into this super cute boutique that had clothes and home stuff. And I realized right away, they had nothing in my size. And I completely did nothing about it. I said nothing. I purchased nothing. I just wandered around the store. Dan bought a shirt because they had his size. I advised him on buying the shirt. And then we left and I was just grumpy about it.
And I was like, Why didn’t I speak up? Like, this is literally what I do. But I was looking around for who I would talk to and the store was very crowded also. So even getting a salesperson… it was a Saturday. Getting someone’s attention was gonna be hard. And then I saw who I thought was the manager, and he was this skinny, hipster guy. And I just was like, he’s not gonna get it. It was a combination of a lot of things. But I was also furious, because I would have spent a lot of money and they had really cute stuff. I would have bought things. I think what happens is you suddenly have this feeling of like, I don’t belong here. They don’t want me here. Yeah, it’s hard to overcome in the moment.
Corinne
That really does suck. I don’t think that I’ve ever said anything about that to anyone, either. I feel like there might have been times where there’s been a bigger person working in the store and then I’ve just been like, “Oh, I really wish you guys carried bigger stuff,” and they’ve been like, “I know.”
Virginia
Yeah. I probably would have felt safer saying something in that context.
Corinne
I feel like I’m just so accustomed at this point to stores not having my size.
Virginia
Right. I was expecting it.
Corinne
It’s just so much the norm.
Virginia
It was a moment where I thought to myself, you know, I’ve been really working on doing this advocacy in doctors offices, like I decline to be weighed. I work on saying why and I am working on that piece of it. And I was like, I need to start building these skills in retail, as well. I so rarely shop in person. So if this is something you want to work on, I think it’s a great place for activism. But I also think if you just feel like it feels hard, it’s okay to just leave the store and shop online instead or whatever. Or you can always like, I think it can be effective to do some calling out in social media, depending.
Corinne
I’d be curious to hear from readers / listeners, if they have done this or have good thoughts on how to do it. Or maybe someone’s done it and the shop has started carrying bigger sizes!
Virginia
I did have a nice exchange with a thin friend, recently. She DM’ed me a brand and she was like, “this brand has amazing jeans and they’re size inclusive. They go up to whatever.” And I looked at the size chart and I was like, “no they don’t.”
Corinne
Oh yeah, like they go up to a 4x and it’s a size 12.
Virginia
Exactly. It was not extended sizes. And she was like, “Oh my God, I didn’t understand that.” I mean, she’s skinny, she’d never had to try on the 4x and realize this. So she was like, “Well, I’m friends with her so I’ll talk to her about it” and I was like, “Good, yes.”
Corinne
That’s really awesome.
Virginia
If you are a good customer in a store that’s not size inclusive, especially these local boutiques, that does feel like a place where you can do this. And I also hear from local boutique owners about how there’s many layers making it difficult for them to do this. But they totally should still get this feedback from customers.
Corinne
Okay, the next question is:
Virginia, could you do a bra science project like you did with Jeans Science?
Virginia
No. Don’t make me. Don’t make me do it.
Corinne
You need a PhD for that. You need an advanced degree in mathematics.
Virginia
Oh my God. I have shared before the bra brands that I like that I shop at barenecessities.com. They have really good customer service. They carry a really wide array of sizes and styles. I have found decent bras there.
I do not feel amazed about my bras regularly, but I feel fine about my bras. I do think there is a deeper investigative story to be done about the way bras are marketed and the weird pseudoscience around bra fits and the way you have to be such an educated customer to understand bras. Like, I do think there’s a fascinating American marketing story to be told there. So I will think about it. But I do not think it will translate to me trying on 600 bras for you.
Corinne
Maybe not a bra science journey.
Virginia
Yeah, not like a try-on experience. Because I don’t want to try on bras.
Corinne
As bad as jeans are, bras would be worse.
Virginia
It has occurred to me that another way to do fashion science in the future would be to get some Burnt Toast reader-volunteers who want to try stuff on and maybe we make some kind of test panel?
Corinne
Interesting.
Virginia
I haven’t worked out any details around that, like logistics. It would be people having to shop and put it on your own credit card and manage your own returns.
Corinne
Yeah, like crowd-sourced…
Virginia
But yeah, like if we could get a panel of readers in different body sizes that might be really interesting.
Corinne
I also think the last time that we talked about bras, I plugged this, but there’s an incredible Reddit that’s called a bra that fits. They’re definitely doing bra science. They can advise you and you can submit photos. And they’ll be like, it’s not fitting, right. They’re doing bra science.
Virginia
So maybe this need is being met and maybe we don’t need to do it for bras. But I’m open to doing it for something else. Maybe? Well, we’ll see what people think.
Holiday Survival Mode
Virginia
So that was all our clothing questions for this month. Now we’re going to get into holiday questions, since by the time this airs, we will have just had Thanksgiving. I hope you all survived. And for many of us, now we’re getting into Hanukkah and Christmas, et cetera, et cetera. It’s an intense time of year for bodies and food and all of the feelings.
Corinne
Yes. Okay. Let me ask you the first question:
So we’re having Thanksgiving with a family who has one kid with extreme picky eating, and it’s somehow always a focus of conversation. Can’t possibly be comfortable for the kid. Plus, my daughter is old enough to pick up some of the terrible food messaging. Is there anything to do here except just change the subject?
Virginia
Oh, so this is interesting. So the picky eater is presumably a nephew or niece or something, not your child but another child at the table where relatives are focusing on that kid’s picky eating. Yeah, that’s a bummer. I mean, my go to line in these situations is “We trust their body. We’re not worried about this.” But if you’re not the parent, that might feel weird, for you to be like, “I trust your body.” He’s like, “Thanks. I haven’t seen you in eight months.”
Corinne
Or then the kids’ parents feeling like you’re criticizing them.
Virginia
Exactly. Depending on the relationship, you may not really have a way to wade in. I think changing the subject is good. I think, don’t worry so much about what your daughter will pick up from it, you are modeling a different way of thinking about food to her and that matters most. If you feel like it’s contributing to negative talk at the table, like now everybody’s being weird about food, you can definitely try to pivot that. Talk about how delicious things are. You’re so excited to be having this meal. There’s so many good foods to try.
But also, make sure your daughter knows she’s under no obligation to eat food she doesn’t like. It’s fine! She can say yes or no to things and I think as long as your own boundaries are clear, she can understand that other families handle this differently. And yeah, it’s kind of a bummer that her cousin doesn’t get to just eat rolls or whatever it is he wants to do. But you know, I think you have to go carefully here. Because however the parents are choosing to handle it, this is probably a huge source of stress and worry for them and I think you want to be respectful of that and a big family meal is not the place where you’re going to have a real heart to heart about it.
Corinne
Um, I feel like this is probably the wrong answer. But I think if I were in this situation, I would probably take the aggro approach of being like, “wow, we’re really talking about what this kids eating a lot.”
Virginia
Oh, I like it. It’s a little spicy. I like it.
Corinne
I have very low tolerance for bullying.
Virginia
I think that’s kind of great.
Corinne
I think sometimes a neutral observation about what’s going on can make people realize they are acting weird.
Virginia
Yeah. Especially if it’s coming from mutual relatives. Like, if it’s your mom, who’s the grandma saying this stuff, by all means get in there and help set some boundaries. And probably the parents will really appreciate it, even if they are doing their own sort of weird stuff around food with this kid.
Corinne
Yeah, that’s good. I just like the approach of just stating an observation and other people can take that chance to reflect.
Virginia
Exactly. That’s perfect.
Corinne
How to navigate a mother-in-law who won’t stop expressing worry about a six year old grandson’s body to my husband who doesn’t push back against it or shut it down. She won’t say it to me, so I can’t address it directly. Their family is rail thin. I am fat. Kiddo has been big since babyhood and is a healthy, active, happy little boy who loves goldfish crackers. Makes me so mad.
Virginia
This is your husband’s problem. You need to talk to him about advocating for you and your child with his mom. This is his territory. Especially because she’s not saying it to you. So either you have set a boundary or she just realizes it would be pushing things too far. But if she is expressing worry about the kid in front of the kid to your husband, your husband needs to shut that down. This is where he needs to say, “We trust his body. We’re not worried. We don’t see a problem here.” And if he’s not willing to do that, I have questions for him, and some notes.
Corinne
The question I have about this question is, if the mother-in-law is expressing worry to the husband, how is the question asker finding out about it?
Virginia
Probably because he’s coming back and saying “I can’t believe what my mom said.”
Corinne
Is he saying, “Can you believe this horrible thing my mom said?” or is he saying “You know, my mom is really worried about…” Like, whose side is he on here? Which is maybe not a nice way of putting it.
Virginia
No, I think this husband has some explaining to do of his position. And why he’s not backing his kid and his wife better. That’s what it comes down to. I don’t think you have to take on your mother-in-law. If she does say it in front of you, I feel pretty confident you will address it directly. And just keep letting your kid love his goldfish crackers. And you do you. But yeah, your husband needs to step up.
Corinne
What are your favorite one liners to respond to common fatphobic comments from family during the holidays?
Virginia
Well, now I’m going to use yours of like “We’re really talking about this?” because I love that.
Corinne
Yeah, not a one liner. But I do think a good approach is just to be like, “Wow, it’s so interesting that you’re commenting on my body.” It’s like, I don’t know, you’re taking like the anthropologist approach. I mean, how often am I actually able to do that and not just be like “shut up you idiot?” Definitely not very often.
Virginia
But this is the goal. The way this stuff comes out in events that I’m at, it’s usually more food shaming than body shaming. When people are talking about how I’m being so bad, I can’t eat X. So then I do a lot of like, “no bad foods, no bad foods.” And I just like will keep dropping that in as needed. I also often disengage. I’ll just steer clear, change the subject. Depending on what I have the energy for. You don’t have to fight every one of these because there’s too many. And it’s exhausting. But yeah, I think if it’s around kids, I always do jump in. Then I always do say, “there are no bad foods, and we trust their bodies and this is not a problem.” I wish I had more funny lines. I don’t feel like I have good funny lines here.
Corinne
Yeah. Me neither. I think the funny line is so appealing because it can just turn something that’s so uncomfortable into like a “gotcha!” moment. But it’s really hard to think of them.
Virginia
It’s really hard because a line you could memorize now won’t actually apply to the comment that comes out.
Corinne
Yeah, you never quite see it coming.
Virginia
I also think if it’s possible to set some boundaries ahead of time, that can go a really long way. This is if you have someone in your family that is a problem. If you could like send a note ahead of time and be like, “I love you. I can’t wait to see you. I really don’t want to talk about bodies or food.”
Corinne
Yeah.
Virginia
And if they can’t respect that, then when it comes up, you could do like, “It’s so interesting that you’re talking about bodies and food, despite my email.”
Corinne
Do you have any tips for holiday treats and potluck season in the workplace?
Virginia
I didn’t totally understand this question. Because I think my main tip would be to just enjoy the food?
Corinne
I interpreted it as being a little like the last question where there’s a lot of treats and food around people make weird comments. Mostly because that was my experience of holiday treats and parties at work.
Virginia
Oh yeah, office parties are the literal worst for that.
Corinne
Yeah. So not to be the one trick pony, but I feel like that same thing works really well in the office because you’re not getting emotional about it. “Oh, it’s so interesting that you don’t let yourself eat chocolate.”
Virginia
I love this. The “It’s so interesting” is the go-to framing.
Corinne
“I’m noticing that you’re being really hard on yourself about food.”
Virginia
That’s really good.
Corinne
I do think the holiday food at the office thing is really stressful.
Virginia
I mean, another thing is like, can you just not go to some of these events? How important is it to attend? I’m a big fan of doing less around the holidays and if there’s something where you just know it would be impossible to just sit and enjoy the cookie plate because everyone’s going to be so toxic about it, make your own cookies at home and just skip it if you can. If that feels okay to do in your job.
Corinne
I’ve worked a lot of places where at the holidays the company gets sent holiday treats. And then there’s always just tons of caramel popcorn and weird boxes of chocolate and fruit trays and cookie trays. And yeah, people are just so weird about it.
Virginia
Yeah, that’s exhausting.
Corinne
I mean, it is nice to have cookies around.
Virginia
I think that’s another way to go into it, right? You talk about what you’re enjoying. And you can do sort of the same quizzical thing of like, “I’m really enjoying this cookie plate. You don’t seem to be.”
Corinne
“So interesting that you don’t like cookies.”
Virginia
“That sounds like not a really fun way to have this party for you.”
Corinne
The longer I look at this question, now I’m like maybe they’re asking how should you deal with not feeling like you need to restrict your eating around this stuff?
Virginia
I mean, I do think these events can be big triggers. If you’re someone who struggles with restriction, you’ll feel like you need to compensate beforehand or after. And I think remembering that you don’t, that your body knows what to do with food. Even if you eat a lot of cookies and your stomach hurts for a little while. This is not a fatal condition, you’re gonna feel better in the morning. Just really giving yourself permission if you have been restricting a lot in the past. This is probably a really important time for you to lean into permission, lean into “I’m going to let myself have as much as I want of everything.” And then be very non-judgmental about what that looks like. Because the temptation is going to be to start counting and calibrating and all of that, and you just need to have some good support people around hopefully, like have some folks who can help you remember, “I am leaning into permission. I’m leaning into I can have whatever I want.”
Because these treats are not around all the time, it is understandable that they do trigger a little scarcity mindset. Like, Oh, these Christmas cookies that I only eat at Christmas, I want to get a lot of them because I only eat them at Christmas. That’s not a problem. That’s a normal way to react to a food you don’t see often. It is often a situation where you’re kind of noticing how scarcity mindset shows up. But if you can remember that this is like a benign scarcity mindset, if that makes sense. And it doesn’t necessarily need to trigger any kind of response afterwards. You don’t need to do anything differently the next day.
Corinne
And no matter how bad it is, it will be over in a month.
Virginia
You will make it through. You will make it then we’ll be in January, which is a whole other journey.
Corinne
Is it really okay that I don’t restrict how much sugar my kids eat? I do not feel confident.
Virginia
It is really okay. It is really, really, okay. It’s not only really okay, it’s really important that you don’t restrict how much sugar your kids eat. Because the more you restrict it, the more they will fixate on it and the more this will become a source of stress for both of you. I suspect you don’t feel confident because you are early on in this process of releasing restriction and you’re probably seeing them eat a lot of sugar and that feels uncomfortable to you. But your discomfort is not a reason to put restrictions back on because they’re not actually doing anything wrong. They are responding to a release from restriction by eating which is what their bodies are supposed to do. You need to sit in this discomfort and let this happen and see where it goes. And you may always have kids who love a lot of sugar or you may have kids who love sugar, but get to a more take it or leave it place. And neither of those is better or worse than the other. You’re gonna let them figure out their own relationship with sugar. And that’s the goal. But yeah, you have to sit in this discomfort right now. And it is hard because it’s going against the grain of so much of what you’ve been taught to do. But it is really, really okay.
More sugar reading:
Corinne
Good advice.
Virginia
How to navigate the doomsday scroll of bodies, body comparison of old photos in a smaller body?
Corinne
I mean, put down your phone.
Virginia
Stop looking.
Corinne
Yeah. I mean, why? It’s just, why. That sounds miserable.
Virginia
Take the photos off your phone. If you need to delete a whole year of photos off your phone, do it. Just do it.
Corinne
Just start watching TikToks, you’ll lose hours of your life and you’ll forget what you look like. You’ll forget you even have a body. You’ll be in the metaverse. Okay, this is maybe not helpful advice.
Virginia
I mean, I get it. I think we’ve all done it. One reason I’m trying very hard to divest from Facebook is because of the Facebook memories thing that shows you old photos.
Corinne
Does your iPhone not just do that? My phone just does that.
Virginia
Yeah, my phone does that, too. But my phone is new enough that I only have the last couple of years, so it’s not bringing up body stuff. Facebook has this tendency to show me like pictures of when my daughter was in the hospital and I’m just like, you know what? Didn’t need that. Didn’t need that today.
Corinne
That’s what I have with my phone. I’m like, “Oh great! Photos of people who are dead.”
Virginia
Not helpful. But also, that’s hard because you don’t actually want to get rid of those. Well, I’m happy to take them off Facebook, but you wouldn’t want to delete those photos of that loved one or that difficult experience.
Corinne
I think also sometimes when you’re comparing yourself to old photos, it can be helpful to look at the bigger picture. You may have been smaller. You may have also been dumber.
Virginia
Or hungrier.
Corinne
Or in a worse place. And now you’re different and it’s good.
Virginia
Yes. If I see photos of myself at 25, I think a lot about the many foot injuries I gave myself from obsessive running. And you know, those foot injuries stay with me to this day at 41. I could have not screwed up my knees and my ankles as much as I did. So it’s useful to think about that.
This may be something that it’s helpful to work through with a therapist. I think this is something that like therapists who specialize in eating disorders are really good at knowing how to help you look at. Like there can be a time and a place for looking at these photos and processing your feelings around them and that’s different from a doomsday scroll, but it’s not something you should sort of like attempt to do on your own. You need support to do that.
Corinne
Any foods you hated as a kid because it was only prepared or purchased diet-y?
Virginia
Rice cakes. I feel like people like rice cakes now and I just cannot understand that. They only exist to me as a diet food. I don’t want to eat them. More recently, green juice. Don’t really need a green juice in my life. Don’t actually like it. Kale is one I’ve had to really like tussle with. Like, do I actually like kale? Do I like it in certain things but actually don’t like it most of the time. I had to give myself permission to not like kale. That wasn’t as a kid, that was as a young adult.
Corinne
My family was vegetarian for a while growing up. My dad was a Buddhist, so it was a philosophical thing.
Virginia
Sure.
Corinne
However, I did not love it. And I now am just not interested in fake meat products. It does kind of go both ways because there’s some I actually like and have an almost nostalgic childhood food thing and there’s some I’m just like, disgusting. Like vegan hotdogs. I’m just like, No. Absolutely not. Give me the real hot dog.
Virginia
Have they gotten better? I feel like vegan hotdogs from the 80s and 90s were probably particularly terrible.
Corinne
Yeah, I mean, maybe! It’s just one of those things. I’m just now like, eh. Or like Impossible Burger. I’m like, I don’t care. However, like Morningstar vegan breakfast sausage? It’s delicious.
Virginia
Interesting.
Corinne
The other thing is like growing up my mom always bought this butter yogurt spread stuff.
Virginia
Oh, gosh. Like one of those it’s not butter?
Corinne
Yeah, but it was a more like nature-y version. It was made with yogurt. Anyways, if that still exists, ban it. Did not like it.
Virginia
I think ban all the fake butters.
Corinne
Yeah, there’s probably people out there who like it.
Virginia
Oh, yeah, I can also put on this list Sweet’n Low, which, at various points in my childhood if I wanted to put sugar on my cereal Sweet’n Low was the option I was encouraged to use. And that’s not delicious on cereal. And I mean, Diet Coke is technically a diet food, but it’s also essential to my life. So that’s one I’ve totally reclaimed.
We did a really good Friday thread about reclaiming diet foods ages and ages ago. It was really interesting to hear which diet foods stay in the torture category and which ones people are like, actually, I do love that. And like, what is it about the food that makes you like realize like, oh, I can actually love that in a non diet-y way now. I think that’s so interesting.
Corinne
Interesting. I’m gonna look back at that.
Butter
I’d love to hear about any books you’re reading lately.
Virginia
I have already plugged it, but I really love Helen Hoang’s romance novels The Heart Principle and Kiss Quotient. They’re delightful. Feminist romance in general is a genre I really got into this year and I’m super here for it.
The non-romance novel I will endorse is Flight by my friend Lynn Steger Strong. It is so beautiful and awesome. It just came out a couple of weeks ago. It’s a great holiday read. She’s having to deal with the whole like, it’s a mom book, it’s a Christmas book. And it’s also like actually brilliant fiction that if a man wrote it would not have those labels on it.
Corinne
I’m in a weird phase of I haven’t been reading a lot, but this summer I read This Time Tomorrow.
Virginia
Oh, yes.
Corinne
By Emma Straub. And I loved it. And I’m kind of annoyed that more people I know haven’t read it.
Virginia
That was the number one book I read this year.
Corinne
Oh, it was just so good. And then I went on a rabbit hole of like reading everything she wrote.
Virginia
All her books are good.
Corinne
I want everyone to read that.
Virginia
I keep wanting Dan to read it. I’m like, this is such a beautiful father/daughter story that’s just, like, amazing.
Corinne
And yeah, I would say especially if you’re someone who’s lost a parent or lost a father, it’s really good.
Virginia
But also be prepared for it being a hard read. It’s beautiful. And she lost her own dad this year. That’s all a part of it. And oh my god, it’s so beautiful.
Corinne
Yeah, I have a feminist romance question. I’m curious if you’ve read this book, Rosaline Palmer Takes the Cake. It’s a romance that takes place on the Great British Bake Off, basically. I mean, fictionally. My mom has gotten into romance and she listened to it and then I listened to it on her audible account. And it’s great. The main character is bisexual, so i guess thats what makes it Feminist. But I thought it was really good.
Virginia
That is an excellent recommendation. Okay, I mean, we just gave some but do you have other Butter recommendations?
Corinne
My recommendation is for you to make yourself a monte cristo sandwich.
Virginia
This sounds delicious.
Corinne
Do you know what that is?
Virginia
No, say more.
Corinne
Okay. So it’s a sandwich. It’s a ham and cheese sandwich. The inside is ham and cheese. And you put bread on the outside, and then you put the bread in egg. Like French toast-y. And then you cook it. So the inside is like melting ham and cheese and outside is like french toast bread. And then traditionally you sprinkle sugar on it. So if you like a slightly sweet thing, you could do that. Or you could not do that.
Virginia
This sounds like it solves my perpetual brunch conundrum of whether I want to go sweet or savory, the eggs or pancakes debate.
Corinne
Yes. And I mean, this is maybe a little annoying, but I feel like the way to do it is to sprinkle sugar on it and then torch it or put it under the boiler. So it’s like a brulee sandwich.
Virginia
Oh, so as you are toasting the sandwich, just like you would do with French toast, right?
Corinne
Do you do that with french toast?
Virginia
Yeah, I dip it in the egg mixture and I put it on the griddle. Then when I flip, I sprinkle the cinnamon sugar on and then I flip and sprinkle the cinnamon sugar on and so that that’s caramelizing on that as the French toast is cooking. If you’re making french toast, this is French toast with ham and cheese inside.
Corinne
Yes. It’s delicious. It’s genius.
Virginia
That’s really good. Well, we could link to a recipe, but also I think you’ve just explained it to us.
Corinne
What’s your butter?
Virginia
Okay, so my butter is I just discovered “Derry Girls.” Have you watched?
Corinne
I also have just started watching it.
Virginia
It’s so good. It’s so good. I’m obsessed. I don’t know how to express my love for it. I feel about it the way I felt about “A League of Their Own.” Which is to say extremely enthusiastic. And I was in a mourning period because I just finished “Bad Sisters” and I felt like I didn’t have anything to watch.
Corinne
“Bad Sisters” is so good.
Virginia
It was so good! And I wasn’t ready to leave Ireland, it turns out. So “Derry Girls,” if you haven’t seen it, is set in Northern Ireland in the 1980s when they’re at the height of…
Corinne
The Troubles.
Virginia
But it’s very funny about being a teenager in a country where bombings happen a lot. And also very moving. And oh my God, I’m obsessed. I watched the whole first season in like two nights,
I’m watching on nights when Dan is out and I’m on my own, which happens a couple times a week. And I’m doing a very good puzzle while I watch Derry Girls, and it’s just like my little blissful evening routine.
Alright, I think we did an episode! Thank you, Corinne. This was great. Do you want to tell people where to find you?
Corinne
You can find me on Instagram @selltradeplus or @selfiefay is my personal account.
Virginia
Thanks again for listening to Burnt Toast!
The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by me, Virginia Sole-Smith. You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter.
Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.
The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.
Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.
Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.
Thanks for listening and for supporting independent anti diet journalism. I’ll talk to you soon.
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